Uneven sharpness alongside the edge

Dovofan

Well-Known Member
Hi all!

I`ve been trying to sharpen my Dovo 5/8 on the Coticule, and the results are controversial.

After following the Unicot method, right before the tape-ing of the spine (so after doing just the halfstrokes to get my razor to shave arm hairs), I`ve noticed that the blade is slightly sharper in the middle, and less sharp on the toe and heel, and the bevel is just slightly wider in the middle, on just one side. The results are something like a HHT 3 in the middle and playing violin (not very loudly either!) on the toe and heal.

Could this be a result of my honing strokes (which are halfstrokes with some pressure applied on the balde, and then X-strokes from the Unicot recipe)? Or could it be that the bevel isn`t set right??

I do admit that I stabilize the blade with a finger on the spine, in the middle of the blade, when doing halfstrokes. Could putting too much pressure on that finger result in an uneven bevel and a such of a big difference in sharpness?:-/

Best regards,
Alex
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
alex put black marker along cutting edge . hone and see wher marker is. i'm sure you will find the marker remains at toe and heal. this will be why your not so sharp there. just ajust your stroke . take note of where slurry runs up the edge this will indicate that the heal and toe are getting on the hone .
 

Dovofan

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice!

Any ideas on the uneveness of the bevel? Is this also a result of my honing stroke?

Edit: Taking a better look at my Coticule, I think it is not completely flat. I guess I have to lap it in order to avoit such edge problems...
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Dovofan said:
Thanks for the advice!

Any ideas on the uneveness of the bevel? Is this also a result of my honing stroke?

Edit: Taking a better look at my Coticule, I think it is not completely flat. I guess I have to lap it in order to avoit such edge problems...
right yes lap coticule to be on safe side , i carn't see that being the problem. most bevels are not al;ways that even. it seems like you may of used to much pressure and got carried away. As the the middle makes good contact you need to work on the heel more. just take your time. If i was you i would put the hone on a flat raized surface . and hone in x pattern and guide the razor with your index finger on the toe just to guide the razor and keep it even do this for a good hundred laps on milky slurry to get a desent even bevel . keep checking and keep adding marker to make sure your hitting the whole edge . use normal to light pressure.just work on the bevel untill your happy. if i was you i would do the old dilucot method and use normal x pattern like we all did in the begining. This way it perfect your stroke and improve your honing by far. then later youn can use the new method.Only when you get great results from old method . with new method i use enough pressure to keep the blade down on the hone that is all.
 

Dovofan

Well-Known Member
Right then!

I lapped my coticule flat using dry sandpaper on a glass surface, after making a net pattern on the surface with a pencil. Now it`s flat as can be.

So I guess I`ll just do the Dilucot method, although it does seem a little difficult, especially in knowing when the bevel was set. But I guess you`re right about the stroke, the classic X-stroke would be best to even the bevel.
Thanks again!

Best regards,
Alex
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
if the razor shaves some kind of hair at each section of the edge thats all you need . Then start diluting. It sounds like the bevel is set but just not fine enough for a great shave. fat thin slight wider in parts bevels still shave great . i have a dovo one side is fatter the oposite side is thinner why because there is a slight warp, one side makes to much contact while the other side makes leess contact. so you end up with two oposite side. so long as your bevel cutting edge is sharp thats all that matters
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Good advice so far always :thumbup:
I believe the problem is pressure, if you keep your finger in the middle of the blade you will work that area more than the others.
I never keep my finger in the same place when doing half strokes, and if any areas need a little extra work as I go through the honing, I place my finger there so to help it catch up.
Another thing I see all too often is that when someone fails with unicot, he says "ok I will try Dilocut" I dont get this at all? if you are not happy with the results that you have achieved using the easiest method, how will switching to a harder one help?

My advice would be to move your finger around as you go through the half strokes, and when you have the edge absolutely as sharp as you ever imagined you could, apply the layer of tape, and finish with 20-30 gentle strokes on a very very light slurry, then rinse everything off and finish with 60 or so regular X strokes on water, thats as quick and easy as it gets.

Best wishes and however you choose to proceed I am sure you will continue to improve and improve

Ralfson (Dr)
 

Dovofan

Well-Known Member
Ralfy, I believe you`re right.
I got a little carried away and put too much pressure an that finger, and that finger hasn`t moved from the middle of the spine... Noob mistake...

I`ll be sure to stick with the Unicot procedure, as it is waay easier than the Dilucot, I just don`t have enough experience to know how and when to dilute, in order to get a great shave.
And I guess I`ll have to pay more attention to the placement of the stabilizing finger and the pressure on it, from now on

By the way, I still don`t have a slurry stone, and used with just the slurry that raised on the coticule during the halfstrokes. And still, I was now able to get a HHT 4 almost on the entire length of the blade, except the very heal and the very toe. I`ll just keep at it and hopefully, when the slurry stone arrives, it`ll be easier to get to that point where the razor shaves arm hair on all its length, before applying the tape and finishing. :)

Till then , I thank you all for your kind advice.

ta ta
Best regards,
Alex
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Alex, you are doing very well indeed my friend :thumbup:
Imagine how much easier you would find it with a Slurry stone, p.m. me your details, I have 2 and can manage with just the 1.

I believe that after you have mastered the unicot you will find Dilocut without too much trouble, the new method as detailed in the sharpening academy takes all the guess work out of it, you will of course still need to refine the method to suit your stone, way of working, the razor you are honing etc etc, its certainly not a "Honing by numbers" technique.

Pip pip old bean
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Dovofan

Well-Known Member
Ralfy, thank you for your kind offer. But there is no need to part from one of your beloved little cotis, as mine is already paid for, and is, as we`re "speaking", on its way to me from Ardennes. Poor little thing just didn`t fit in my distributor`s transport of 2 kg... She should arrive sometime next week... B)

As for the honing methods, I sure hope you`re right about the Dilucot. But until I even start to imagine to get a smooth edge with that method, I`ll stick to Unicot until good results make they`re way on my blade.. Hopefully sooner rather than later :)

Ta ta
Alex
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Alex,

you received many good suggestions in this thread.
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that may be of interest to you.

Good luck.
Bart.
 

Dovofan

Well-Known Member
Update:

So, today I managed to get a nice even bevel on my Dovo, using the rolling X stroke, putting more pressure on the heal and toe to even things up. I`m pleased with the result, however now I`m stuck in another point on the (hopefully ascending) curve of my honing learning skills.
Using regular strokes with a very very thin slurry, basically with just the slurry that accumulated while actually honing the razor, I managed to get the razor to shave arm hair pretty well on the whole lenght of the edge, bu t I cannot seem to make it sharper than that.
After finishing this edge on just water, the HHT was 2-3, and after 60 or so lap on the strop, I managed to get an HHT 4, however I know it can be better. I`m comparing the results with a shavette using a Wilkinson DE, which does a HHT 5 easily. I know it`s a lot to ask but I think it`s manageable.

So the question is this: is my edge not sharp enough straight off the coticule? And if so, what can I do to improve it? Ideas would be great!

Thanks!
Best regards,
Alex
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
ok Alex, HHT 4 is actually as good as you need, a 5 like the one on the DE blade is as good as you will ever achieve even after many many hundreds of Honing's experience, DE blades will give a 5 but the shave is not as smooth as a good 4 off a coticule. my advice would be to lather up and take that puppy for a spin around your chin :thumbup:

If you have both a canvas and a leather strop, give it 60 on the canvas first, then the same on the leather, a fresh coticule edge really really benefits from that.

Sounds like you have done very indeed my friend.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
I love the "tell your wife to mind her own business line"... She will too. Try it :thumbup:
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Dovofan said:
After finishing this edge on just water, the HHT was 2-3, and after 60 or so lap on the strop, I managed to get an HHT 4, however I know it can be better. I`m comparing the results with a shavette using a Wilkinson DE, which does a HHT 5 easily. I know it`s a lot to ask but I think it`s manageable.
It's a bit besides the point. The Shavette might very well be keener. Buy a bottle of 0.25 micron diamond spray, put it on a canvas hanging strop and give the razor a few laps. It will easily match up with the Wilkinson blade. But, the big question is: will your face still like the shave? Some guys will actually answer that question with an enthusiastic YES. Which is quite all right. But most people will find the shave harsh, and complain about skin irritation, bleeding weepers, possibly ingrowing hairs.

Hence is depends on who you ask, but I say such an edge is too sharp and discerns poorly between shaving whiskers and blemishing skin. Not so with a Coticule edge. When skillfully sharpened, the edge of a Coticule shaves without any pulling sensation, just a very agreeable hint of resistance that guides you through the shave. When done, you can splash cold water on your skin and rub a wet alum block over it, without any discomfort. Usually even without any noticeable feeling at all. Try that with a shavette.

If you feel somehow insecure about having reached the ultimate edge your Coticule can provide, I would like to suggest that you look at the Free Honing Service, and send out a razor. It will return with a Coticule edge that borders on the maximum one can reasonable expect of these hones.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

Dovofan

Well-Known Member
Well gentlemen, I have to agree

Having shaving with the shavette for 2 years now, I have to say that I never had a really comfortable shave with it, not mentioning that the slightest mistake could turn into a big chunk of my face missing...
And maybe the edge of my straight isn`t quite there it (it sure doesn`t compare to what you guys can do with one), but it still beats the shavette any day,because the shave is much more comfortable. Even with a little pulling, it`s still better!

Thanks for the great advice
Have a nice one, ;)
Alex
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i shave all my customers with perma sharp blades and shavette style cut throat. i use alum block on them after and they do feel the sting slightly. having said that these blades i find are ultra sharp and will shave efortlessly through even a weeks growth. they will nick ever so easy and cause blood spots if slightly to much pressure is used.

this is not the case with a straight razor they are more forgiving easier to shave with and leave the skin in better condition.I could shave every day with a straight razor, could i shave every day wioth a shavette? no way
 
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