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Unexpected burr? :/

Matt

Matt

Well-Known Member
Howdy, y'all

I was honing Robin's nice stainless 6/8 Henckels today, which came along with oh-so-posh gold washed Bismarck for me to try :thumbup: (that's a different story, BTW). Started with usual dulling on glass, then on to setting the bevel. Point area got a nice arm hair shaving edge, the heel was staying behind, so I put my finger there and did some extra laps. After a while I checked the edge again, but to my surprise there was no improvement whatsoever, so I turned the blade around and inspected it under bright light. What I saw made me whip off the camera and tripod and shoot some pics to see things clearer and share it, too. The damn steel went all in flakes and chips, and I really have no idea, why. Is this the candidate for taped honing, just like those TI's, or what? (Robin, is this some kind of trick of yours? :) )

(middle-click the image for the big picture)

cheers,
Matt

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[c][/c]
 
My first thought: try back honing...
Though Robin`s razors would surely be top notch,this one might suffer from metal fertigue..

I`ve tried this with a few razors,lately a very fine looking swedish steel razor,but the metal is so brisk and fragile,that the edge just keep breaking up.....

As I presume you are still perfect,it surely cant be caused by your honing:w00t:

Kindest kindest regards
Torbs
 
I believe these chips was predate.You have to rehone it until edge return clean.Inox steel is never so hard for chips presentations.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
My opinion is that it's not chipping but a burr. How did you hone that spot (both when concentrating on it and before that)? It could have survived from an earlier stage.

Try a downstroke on, say, a 1k synthetic, and check that the stuff on the edge is gone. Then, try honing that part again.
 
All I can say is that Matt is working on the factory bevel. That razor was NOS. Interesting. :)
 
Robin ,your confirmation meets my own diagnosis. All of these are remnants of the griding wheel by contracted the factory bevel.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
danjared said:
My opinion is that it's not chipping but a burr. (...) It could have survived from an earlier stage.
Click to expand...
Emmanuel said:
Robin ,your confirmation meets my own diagnosis. All of these are remnants of the griding wheel by contracted the factory bevel.
Click to expand...

Hey, you smart folks. I told you I pre-dulled at the beginning of the job, so this (together with the fact that it takes more than one stroke on glass to disable arm hair shaving with my arm hairs) is 99% negative (edit: after Jared's remark about not being able to remove burr on glass, that drops to, say, 40 :blush:, sorry). But you're right Jared, this looks definitely like a burr.I really don't know why I wrote chipping, probably fixed myself on it, despite what I saw in front of my eyes. Anyway, I don't know how to answer your question how I was honing it, you know, you do some slurry, put a razor on a hone and move it back and forth, back and forth... :) Just regular halfstrokes, when I noticed it's staying behind, I added some pressure with a finger, nothing extraordinary here.

I thought maybe Inox behaves somewhat similar to those fussy TI's. Ok, I'll simply try again, I'm eager to shave with it. :)

Nice to see you, Torbs, and damn you, being a perfectionist doesn't mean you do things perfectly, haha. ;) Anyway, what can go wrong with honing to form a burr? I remember Bart was saying he had never seen a burr off a coticule. I've already removed it, but maybe I should do all my best to re-create it and send it to his coticule-related museum. :)

kind regards,
Matt
 
Did you predull with glass or something else? I've never had success with removing a burr using glass. I had to resort to a hone.

I've created a burr with a coticule before--one that's even visible. The latest instance was when I was at someone else's home, showing him and his son how to hone, and I was demonstrating using a slurry stone and some pressure to make quick work of targeted bevel setting since the heel was in need of extra attention. (He didn't have any stones besides the coticule and a cheap low-grit synthetic oil stone.) I was a bit heavy-handed with the pressure and doing half-strokes (okay, more like circles), taking a lot of time between flips. It's just that, usually, under normal circumstances, it's hard to create a burr with a coticule. But it's certainly not impossible.
 
Yeah, I predulled on glass, having assumed that the edge itself is fine. Robin told me he'd done some strokes on water with this razor, so I was guessing it had been used at least once, hence glass would be fine (honestly anything else didn't even cross my mind). Fine, I'll take it out and have a good run against concrete pavement. :lol:

Thanks for sharing information on burr - actually it happened to me once before. Maybe there's something to the heavy handedness you mentioned, hmm.

cheers, amigos
Matt
 
danjared said:
Did you predull with glass or something else? I've never had success with removing a burr using glass. I had to resort to a hone.

I've created a burr with a coticule before--one that's even visible. The latest instance was when I was at someone else's home, showing him and his son how to hone, and I was demonstrating using a slurry stone and some pressure to make quick work of targeted bevel setting since the heel was in need of extra attention. (He didn't have any stones besides the coticule and a cheap low-grit synthetic oil stone.) I was a bit heavy-handed with the pressure and doing half-strokes (okay, more like circles), taking a lot of time between flips. It's just that, usually, under normal circumstances, it's hard to create a burr with a coticule. But it's certainly not impossible.
Click to expand...

I was removing a chip from toe. I used lots of pressure . that got rid of the chip, but left me with a similar edge . I would say i created a burr. due to pressure honing and working the chip out. i just dragged that part over a glass and honrd as normal and it was gone.
 
Ok, chaps, I've just successfully set a proper bevel on it, SAH on entire length, I guess I was just trying to be too fast with her... :blush:

On with the dilutions, thanks, all.

Cheers,
Matt
 
Friend Mat.I will not get my view back.Is impossible to create a bar honing on a coticule.It can happen only then during half strokes the edge rests on the hone only against the course of the spine leader motion and never of the edge leader ,but i consider that you are experienced enough to avoid it.Did you observe the edge before honing ? I bet no.If the microchips or the bar if you like was predate be sure that do not leave passing the blade on glass.Bart said thousand times that the effectivity from the glass is minimal ,however you can use a dulled razor by glass after a havy stropping.
In short you ll see once the blade is clearly honed ,it will never return to the current situaton.
In adition i would like to say the the inox steel has no relation with TI carbon steel regarding the hardenes.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
I've seen this before on new razors, usually near the heel. I believe it's a kind of "production burr".

Downstrokes on glass will not remove something like that.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Gentlemen,

As I said, I got back to it with a clearer mind and armed with your suggestions and hints, for which I thank you all. I ran the problematic area over the schist on the back of the coticule, then through a piece of wood to be 110% sure burr's dead, baby, burr's dead.

Unless Friodur came from a factory in this shape, I believe that overly pressure could be the culprit here. I set myself on "bevel setting mode" too much, I guess.

Finished it on Saturday with normal pressure, great HHT-4 all along, test driven yesterday evening. After the first, XTG / ATG, pass I hardly felt anything on my skin, a second ATG pass where available gave me alum sting well below the average. Nice! :thumbup:

regards,
Matt
 
Glad that everything is OK.Don't forget Mateusz that a razor is like a woman.You never know how was used by the previus partner .
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
Robin said:
Careful now, Emmanuel - that is my razor...

:love:
Click to expand...

Did you do everything with her, Robin ? :thumbup: And know Matt seems novice against her experience
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
A good tip I learned is to use a slight back honing stroke before your long x stroke to help prevent wired edges.
 
Disburden said:
A good tip I learned is to use a slight back honing stroke before your long x stroke to help prevent wired edges.
Click to expand...
Lets stop this thread drift and get back to talking about razors, shall we? ;)
 
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