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varying coticules.


Well-Known Member
i have number 54 and 21 from the vault. this is how i'm getting the best ever edges. my cream side on my 54 does all the bevel work very fast as it is fast cutting . i turn over make another slurry on the hybrid side which is still quik but not as rapid as cream side. I do full dilucot m,ethod. finish with water and obtain the best hht i can. at best i can normaly catch and pop or just catch and pop of the final hone. Now if i switch to my number 21 which is my la grosse jaune, and do 30 to 100 laps the hht hits 4 plus it is like i have just stropped the razor it's absalutley the best i ever acheived on any coticule with minimum efort. And more important the shaves are the best i ever had .

bart why do you think this is? or any one else?
Gary, that question deserves a thorough answer. Please allow me a few days time to formulate a proper one.
i probably hav'nt explained that well . I will give a example. Right i've set bevel and i go to my hybrid side to do dilucot or any coticule for that matter. or coticule i own. i finish dilucot and final stages on water . I 'm getting a just pass hht , i work on same coticule and feel as that i have improved hht to a 2/3. i no after stropping i will hit 3/4. what i discoverd was by going to my la grosse jaune, and doing 30 laps on water , straight away there was even more response on water so much so i carried on with more laps untill i was passing hht on a 4 and i'm not kidding, after stropping i could pass 2 inc away from holding point with a blonde fine hair. i only had to rest the hair on the edge and it poped in half no efort at all.

the shaves were amazing . i have honed easy 30 razors in the same fashion and i have had repeatable results. why is it i could of done say 200 laps on the hybrid coticule with water and not see any improve mant? yet when i did 30 to 100 laps on my la grosse jaune there was a great improvemant that i have to be onest i did'nt think it was possable to reach that level of hht of the hone.

is this hone just differant . all i can think of is it must be a very fine coticule.
Gary, I can not offer the definitive answer to your question, for the simple reason that no one knows.

I remember that I said that you would probably end up using it as a finisher after another one. For finishing on water, it is one of the slowest Coticules I ever tested. Use it on an edge that's anything less sharp than an already perfect edge and it doesn't do anything at all. You know I hate grit ratings for Coticules, but just for the sake of example: let's say you had a 50K grit synthetic hone. If you would use that hone on a perfectly shaving 8K edge, it would not offer any advantage at all, for the same reason as an 8K hone does not work on a 1K edge. The step is too big. Or put otherwise: the finishing properties of this Coticule are very subtle. So subtle that someone without the proper experience would never know it's true brilliance. When I enter hones in the Vault, I have usually honed 3 razors on them. That gives me a fair idea about their potential, but what I don't know is how far they will eventually go in the hands of someone how really takes the time to unleash their full potential.
That is basically what I've been saying all along: Spend enough time with a fixed honing setup, and you will become better and better in using that setup.

With the coming up experiments in the Researchers' Mess, I hope we can investigate about the finishing differences of a few Coticules. It will be interesting, but also holds the risk that people will overestimate the importance of the hone and underestimate the importance of skill. A common mistake.
Allow me to tell you a little story:
About a month ago, my eldest daughter needed a new accordion. We hired a beginners instrument for three years and it was time for her to upgrade to a better one. We visited the store, owned by one of Belgium's leading accordion players. The had a selection of instruments on display, with price tags between 3000 and 20000 EUR. The guy played some of them and I could clearly hear the difference in quality. He's one of the best. My daughter tried some of them as well, and I could hear no difference whatsoever. He pointed us to an instrument that will fit her talents, unless she decides at some point to pursue a professional career on the accordion. Which is unlikely. She plays lovely on it, though.:)

Did you get the point?

Kind regards,
garyhaywood said:
i get you cheers bart, i supose its what ever works for me
Well, actually I know that you have developed the competence to figure out how to get 99.9% out of the potential of 2 Coticules that each bring their own slight differences to the table.

Hence, for a guy like you, who spent the better part of 2 years in perfecting your "Coticule skills", it indeed makes sense to speak about the finer points of varying Coticules.

But you're not the only one reading this thread. For the vast majority of readers, it would not make a difference in their final result, which one of you both Coticules they used. (I'm not saying they would not need to adapt their procedure to the Coticule at hand) As a matter of fact, they would probably have more problems with using the La Grosse Jaune than with the Les Latneuses, because of the slowness of the Grosse Jaune and the fact that it demands plenty of keenness before it can reveal it's true brilliance as a finisher.

I salute your mastery on the Coticules, Gary. I shaved with one of your edges several months ago, and I know you can unleash the magic of a Coticule very well.

Kind regards,