Were the Kampfes "inspired"?

[Walid]

It always amazes me how blatantly the Germans made 100% copies of Kampfe razors without giving any credit.
Other than the writing and markings, both the Rose and the Comfort are identical to Kampfe razors of the time.
The Germans were the Chinese of their age.

The Kampfe Brothers were German. There is actually a rumour that they got inspired by some German/European Razors. But historically they were the first to patent it.
The US had a better legal structure to protect and enforce innovation. Inventors from Europe flocked there to make money.
We see now China trying to get more sophisticated by doing what the US did in late 1800's and protect intellectual property. You might not believe this but Chinese manufacturers were putting tremendous pressure on their government to protect their intellectual property from other Chinese manufacturers. You see, in China, as a Chinese only have a window of 6 months to rack up profits before others copy and actually improve on your design and cost structure. They have no choice but to constantly improve and innovate or be out of business in a few months.
Our grand kids will read about this in history books, the most brutal capitalism in history was actually in a communist country.

 

[sɐǝɹpu∀]

The Kampfe Brothers were German. There is actually a rumour that they got inspired by some German/European Razors. But historically they were the first to patent it.

Some bold claims here.
I can find no prior art resembling the 1880 Kampfe Star razor.
Although the Kampfe brothers were born in Germany, they emigrated to the US in 1870 (Frederick aged 19) and 1872 (Otto aged 17 and Richard aged 19) Their profession at the time was given as "locksmith", not "inventor".
They were not inventors from Germany flocking to the US to make money. The "rumour" they fled Germany to avoid conscription seems more probable (if also unsubstantiated).
Having said this, whatever "it" is - they didn't patent it first (unless we are talking about the Star Safety Razor specifically).
Safety razors of the how-type were patented before.
Even the claim that they first used the term "safety razor" in a patent is doubtful. (H. Brandner, UK patent 135/1878 - I wish I could get a copy of it from somewhere).
Any documents substantiating the above-claimed "rumour" would be appreciated.

 

[Walid]

Hence the word rumour. Immigrants never cut ties to their place of origin. They leverage it to their benefit from it when they can. Italians stayed in touch with their countrymen to get access to a good deal on olive oil for export, til today, by the way, I financed some companies when I was working as a commercial lender. If the Kampfe brothers or their relatives were originally involved in metal work they had connections probably to Solingen manufacturers.

 

[sɐǝɹpu∀]

Hence the word rumour. Immigrants never cut ties to their place of origin. They leverage it to their benefit from it when they can. Italians stayed in touch with their countrymen to get access to a good deal on olive oil for export, til today, by the way, I financed some companies when I was working as a commercial lender. If the Kampfe brothers or their relatives were originally involved in metal work they had connections probably to Solingen manufacturers.

Solingen and Dresden (the Kampfes were born in a village nearby) are almost as far apart in Germany as possible.
They were teenage locksmith apprentices when they left Germany. They left to flee either conscription or poverty.
So, unless anyone can substantiate said rumour with any even remotely relevant documents I'll call the rumour "random guesswork" or maybe even "bullshit". (Sorry for the harsh language)
Show me any pre-1880 razor from Solingen/Germany/Europe that could have inspired the Kampfe brothers.

 

[Walid]

Solingen and Dresden (the Kampfes were born in a village nearby) are almost as far apart in Germany as possible.
They were teenage locksmith apprentices when they left Germany. They left to flee either conscription or poverty.
So, unless anyone can substantiate said rumour with any even remotely relevant documents I'll call the rumour "random guesswork" or maybe even "bullshit". (Sorry for the harsh language)
Show me any pre-1880 razor from Solingen/Germany/Europe that could have inspired the Kampfe brothers.

I fail to see your logic there. Napoleon was born in Genoa and yet he rose to power in Paris they are more far apart than Dresden and Solingen. They did shave in Dresden too you know and they've seen some straight and transitional razors as well. Einstein did use the work of Lobatchevsy and Mach and got blamed for never mentioning them.
We all want those heros that created things from scratch. But the truth is Human inventions and creations are always inspirations from each other.
Again just a rumour, I am not trying to take away anything from the Kampfe brothers. Actually my collection is based and revolving around Kampfe razors.

 

[sɐǝɹpu∀]

I fail to see your logic there. Napoleon was born in Genoa and yet he rose to power in Paris they are more far apart than Dresden and Solingen. They did shave in Dresden too you know and they've seen some straight and transitional razors as well. Einstein did use the work of Lobatchevsy and Mach and got blamed for never mentioning them.
We all want those heros that created things from scratch. But the truth is Human inventions and creations are always inspirations from each other.
Again just a rumour, I am not trying to take away anything from the Kampfe brothers. Actually my collection is based and revolving around Kampfe razors.

Which razor could they have seen in 1870's Dresden that inspired the Kampfe Star 10 years later? I'm at a loss and would like to be enlightened.
It's not a even rumour, just wild unsubstantiated speculation and without any attempt to substantiate it even slightly, I'm done with this.

 

[Walid]

Which razor could they have seen in 1870's Dresden that inspired the Kampfe Star 10 years later? I'm at a loss and would like to be enlightened.
It's not a even rumour, just wild unsubstantiated speculation and without any attempt to substantiate it even slightly, I'm done with this.

Rumours are always unsubstantiated. Again I am not hating on the Kampfe Brothers. My Collection is centred towards their razors.
You see, we got used to see mass production nowadays and we firmly believe that any razor must've been produced in huge amounts because no factory will dare to produce a small batch.
Most produced razors didn't come from deep pocketed people, sometimes it's just for a local market (Herberer's razor), Some for Friends and clients (Kelly's razor). Sucj a small number produced might not make it through time and even harder for that to happen in Germany where they lacked in natural resources and they had to bring their forks, spoons, metal plates to founderies to support the war effort.
It's ok to get inspired by someone else, that's the story of humanity. You don't need to go up in arms for a simple natural thing that occurred and still occurring in human behaviour.

 

[efsk]

You must, however, admit that when you come in with a claim stating basically the Kampfe Brothers stole their design, having no proof at all except unsubstantiated rumours do not help your case.

 

[Walid]

If it was a claim, I would agree with you. If I said they stole, I will also agree with you. But I did neither. I said there was a rumour and I said they got inspired.
The proof is in the first comment.
Sorry guys, I already checked with my lawyers and my wording was impeccable.

 

[efsk]

Still, if they were inspired, that means there's prior art somewhere.
Do you know where the rumour came from?

Sucj a small number produced might not make it through time and even harder for that to happen in Germany where they lacked in natural resources and they had to bring their forks, spoons, metal plates to founderies to support the war effort.

I'm quite sure that was not the case in the 1870s-80s, which is when the Kampfes started work on and sold their razors.

 

[Walid]

Still, if they were inspired, that means there's prior art somewhere.
Do you know where the rumour came from?

I'm quite sure that was not the case in the 1870s-80s, which is when the Kampfes started work on and sold their razors.

First time I saw it was a year/year and a half ago. Someone selling this razor (Rose) you're showing but without the tin. Spanish website. I was going to buy it and then dismissed it because I thought he was just propping out his stuff to sell it. And frankly at the time I was just beginning my collection and had to make choices on what to buy. I, 2 years later I realized I was just a razor hoarder with no direction. I started reading more books about razors and started to see patterns of their evolution. They really get inspired from each other and not only in design but also in meatlwork, honing, presentations, etc...
This led me to believe that it could've happened to the Kampfe Brothers. They might've been inspired by others, like what happened after them and before them in many industries.
When stuff is not meaningful enough or not produced in great quantity or with cheap design or bad quality blades or whatever. It gets tossed out or sold to a smelter and most likely lost forever. Richard, are you from Germany?

 

[efsk]

There’s stuff produced in minimal quantities that still pops up. I have some, you’ve at least encountered some. Should there be something that inspired the kampfes it should have or would soon pop up.
Your realisation something like that COULD have happened does not make it a rumour. It makes it speculation for which, as of yet, no substantiation has been found. I’m open to all theories, but without at least a second independent source I’m extremely sceptical.
Not from Germany, me, I’m Dutch.

 

[Walid]

Well, my Dutch friend, You'll have much more luck finding that out than me from Canada. Yes I did encounter and own some stuff produced in minimal quantities. And I see what you mean. It might take some more time before we see a lather catcher pre-Kampfe HR-1A.

I am gonna talk to a few collectors with huge collections and get their opinion on the subject. Yes you're right we need a second source to make this rumour plausible. I'll get back to you on that.

 

[FvL]

Hi Walid,
Waits in "Before Gillette: The Quest for a Safe Razor - Inventors and Patents 1762-1901" goes into the precursors of Kampfe. Should be ready available in ebook and is worth the price if you are into razors......

 

[Walid]

Hi Walid,
Waits in "Before Gillette: The Quest for a Safe Razor - Inventors and Patents 1762-1901" goes into the precursors of Kampfe. Should be ready available in ebook and is worth the price if you are into razors......

Yes, I actually own almost all valuable books written about Shaving. I also have the first edition of "La pogonotomie" By jean -Jacques Perret in 1769.

 

[FvL]

Ok, no sweat. I do not like your tone, but do follow your line of thinking. My reference to waits was about precursors in documented history. I agree with EFSK that you might offer more as evidence.... For myself, I am sitting on a couple of French razors I belief to be earlier then the Kampfe razors, but have no exact idea about dating.....

 

[Walid]

Ok, no sweat. I do not like your tone, but do follow your line of thinking. My reference to waits was about precursors in documented history. I agree with EFSK that you might offer more as evidence.... For myself, I am sitting on a couple of French razors I belief to be earlier then the Kampfe razors, but have no exact idea about dating.....

Hehe, no worries my friend. Text cannot really communicate the tone or the personality of the person unless there is excessive use of fillers like excuse words or submissive wording.
I was told that I am more on the male side of attitude. In reality if you meet me and see me, you'll get the impression of funny and kind human being.
I became Vegetarian in 2007 and never went back. 99% of my diet is actually vegan, Despite living in a country with huge commute distances I barely logged 25,000km in 5 years. Mainly trying to preserve the environment and minimize waste for sustainability. I buy wheat, mill my own flower and make my own bread. I also grow some of my food. I compost and recycle regularly.
Do I come across as arrogant...Maybe, but with me there is no mask or tricks. Wysiwyg (What You See is What You Get).

Cordially (how is that for a tone improvement)

 

[efsk]

I became Vegetarian in 2007 and never went back. 99% of my diet is actually vegan

That explains all

 

[efsk]

Just kidding, I hope that is clear.

 

[Walid]

Just kidding, I hope that is clear.

Yeah, you got me mad. I'll forgive you if you sell me a Multiplex.
You don't need to apologize with me, I can take a critique, a joke, etc..Not a snowflake my friend.