what you guys think of this?

G

Guest

Only if you replace the Shapton with a shapti and the strop with a strappi. Honest.

An alternative approach would be to use the 1k Shapton and one of the Coticule honing methods described in the
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. Because contrary to popular belief, the number of hones involved in the process does not automatically enhance the results.
 
G

Guest

It would work, but I fail to see why you would want to use a Shapton 5k and a Belgian Blue in the process. Alternatively, why not replace the Coticule with the 8k Shapton?
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
It might work, depending on you did with the Coti/bbw? the thing I dont understand is why?
the Coti with slurry will take the place of the 1K, and following one of the sharpening methods as Robin pointed out will get you to a finished edge.

My best regards
Ralfson
 

slartibartfast

Active Member
It will work. You just don't need to purchase all those hones. If you already own them, see what works best.

I used used to go dmt -> bbw -> coticule and it works really well. I used the dilucot/unicot methods for a while too.
Now I have more hones than sense and I dont want to talk about it any more.

if you are going to use a 5k and 16k, you might as well just throw an 8k in there and skip the coticule.


jimmyman said:
so it would not work then??
 

jimmyman

Well-Known Member
so a Naniwa ss 1k and 5k then i go just water on the yellow side and strop gives me a ok ish edge but it still seems to tug a little it maybe my techneque at the mo
but i just was looking at a finishing stone like the shapton
 

slartibartfast

Active Member
I don't think buying more finishing stones will fix the problem.

I am not the coticule expert here... but back in the day I found barts bevel setter->bbw->coticule progression very easy to follow.

try the following.

Build a slurry on your bbw. Do around 50 strokes, then start diluting it down to water. After this hit the coticule water only 50-100 strokes.

This may be a bit more strokes than required, but I think this will work and there is no risk to over hone here.


I am sure someone will come in and debunk this though ;) You could also build a slurry on the coticule and to the unicot/dilucuot at this point.

Just keep in mind, none of these methods will give you a good shaving edge if you do not have a good bevel set.


jimmyman said:
so a Naniwa ss 1k and 5k then i go just water on the yellow side and strop gives me a ok ish edge but it still seems to tug a little it maybe my techneque at the mo
but i just was looking at a finishing stone like the shapton
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
BeBerlin said:
Only if you replace the Shapton with a shapti and the strop with a strappi. Honest.

An alternative approach would be to use the 1k Shapton and one of the Coticule honing methods described in the
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. Because contrary to popular belief, the number of hones involved in the process does not automatically enhance the results.
Ah this is what I've been missing for the last month :w00t:

Good to "see" you again Robin :thumbup:
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
If I was coming off a 5K, I would raise a very light (2-3 rubs of the slurry stone) slurry on the Coti, do 30 half strokes each side of the blade, then add a couple drops of water, 15 half strokes, and continue until I had diluted all the slurry away, maybe 5-6 dilutions, then rinse the stone and blade clean, continue with 30 half strokes on water only, and finsh with 30-60 regular X strokes, again on just water, HHT should be a clean 3.
Strop 60/60 Canvas and leather, and enjoy a sharp and smooth shave.

Bang on Chaps!

Robin, how anyone could fail to be impressed with your charm is beyond me...lol

My warmest regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Jimmyman, welcome to Coticule.be.

I believe you had good advice already. What it comes down to is that you have too many hones already. :)
Every suggestion made in this thread would work well, but not necessarily if you start mixing them up.

Key is that you make up your mind about a particular setup and method, and stick with it till you can repeatedly manage to get an edge that shaves satisfactory. At that point, you can bring in another variable and find out if you like it better or less well.

Hence:

1. decide on a bevel setter: the Naniwa 1K or the Coticule used with milk-like slurry. Stick with your choice till you can make it work.
2. decide on a "mediator" hone: the Naniwa 5K or the BBW used with a thin slurry, or the Coticule progressing from milky to very thin slurry.
3. decide on a finisher: the Shapton 16K or the Coticule.

Note that you will only need the bevel setter on a worn-out beaten-up edge. Once a razor has a good edge and you only use it to shave, the bevel setting hone is no longer required.
So, pick 3 hones, one out of each category and make them work.

Let us know what you have decided, and someone will talk you through using them.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

jimmyman

Well-Known Member
right i have the 1k naniwa which i have been using then i have gone to the 5k naniwa then i have been finishing with water on the yellow coticule all seem well passes the hht n problems
but when i shave with my gotta it is not very smooth thats why i want to try a 10k plus
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Thats cool Jimmy, try using a very thin slurry on the coticule and diluting it down as you go, then finish on water, 5K to Coti/water is a bit of a big step, hht will look good, but alas this is caused by the rather rough edge that you still have.

Gotta you say!! Mmmm I do love a Gotta, the 120 superfine I have is one of the smoothest shavers in my rotation.
If all else fails, send the old girl to me and I will return her to you, Coticule Honed for your enjoyment old bean :thumbup:

Best wishes
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
Thats cool Jimmy, try using a very thin slurry on the coticule and diluting it down as you go, then finish on water, 5K to Coti/water is a bit of a big step, hht will look good, but alas this is caused by the rather rough edge that you still have.

Gotta you say!! Mmmm I do love a Gotta, the 120 superfine I have is one of the smoothest shavers in my rotation.
If all else fails, send the old girl to me and I will return her to you, Coticule Honed for your enjoyment old bean :thumbup:

Best wishes
Ralfson (Dr)
He's spot on. Most likely, your edge off the 5K is not ready for finishing on the Coticule with water only. But there's also a possibility that you haven't done enough work on the 5K.

I would first try Ralfon's advice with the thin slurry on the Coticule.

Good luck,
Bart.
 
G

Guest

A good question. What about it, indeed? I think it would be a lot easier to answer if you explained what exactly you are hoping to achieve by hopping from hone to hone, keeping mind that natural hones can - but not necessarily, must - vary greatly in their characteristics, and that the BBW has not been overly well researched at the time of writing.

Would you care to elaborate?

Thanks in advance,
Robin
 

jimmyman

Well-Known Member
I set the beval on my 1k then I go to my 5k and smooth it off then I go to my BBw with a little slurry then turn over and do the same on the yellow side then do 50 ish laps with no slurry then I want to smooth it even further that's why I was looking at a finishing hone
 
G

Guest

Sorry, but I am still confused. As explained in the documentation I linked in my first reply, you do not need a 1k stone. It is nice to have but not required. What you expect from the BBW after the 5k Shapton remains a mystery. Equally inexplicable is why you would use a Coticule without water. Have you actually read the documents? Because you can do with the Coticule only. Some people prefer to finish off with CrO or diamond spray, but this is just nice to have, not a requirement.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
jimmyman said:
what about from the 5k naniwa going to the bbw then the yellow side with slight slurry?
Your problem is that you mix up synthetic hones and natural hones. Synthetic hones have an exact number that correlates with their particle size. That allows the user to put them in the correct working order. At least, when he stays within the same brand, but that's a story for another time. Natural hones don't have a grit number. That makes it difficult to put them in a progression. With Coticules and BBWs, the thickness of the slurry is directly connected to how sharp your edge will become and to how efficient it cuts (in a reverse relation with the sharpness limit). Therefor, you can't put them in your progression without being able to know exactly how thick or thin you can make the slurry. Make it to thick and you will be working backwards. Make it too thin, and the whetstone will be too inefficient to catch on with the previous synthetic hone.

Or put in other words: most likely, your work on the yellow side with slight slurry after the BBW might as well be making your edge less sharp than it already was after the BBW. That is why we always advice to slowly dilute a slurry.

Somehow, you seem to think that the BBW is to be used before the Coticule. That is correct, but only when we speak about the BBW with slurry and the Coticule wirth water. If you use both with slurry, it is, generally speaking, the other way round. Coticules with slurry: much faster and less sharp than a BBWs with the same slurry density.

Like I said earlier: you need to put a few hones away. I don't think anyone can or should be making that choice for you. You have to make it. Mixing both worlds, turns it into a rather complex process, and you need to be able to assess the sharpness of the blade well as you go along, to be successful.
Stick with the synthetics and follow the numbers: that is easy.
Stick with the Coticule and slowly dilute the slurry as you can see me doing in
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: that is also easy.

But don't mix them up just yet. No one will be able to help you with something like that.

And finally, your easiest option of all:
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.

Best regards,
Bart.
 

torbenbp

Well-Known Member
Well,most have been said allready,but anyway:

Listen to Sir Barts advice..Unicut is the most reliable way to obtain a succesfull honing job.

Personaly,I wouldnt go above 1K on man made hones (never use them,just a coticule). And in fact,the coticule will cover the 1K or bevel setting range too.

But coticules are very difficult to master, and uneven results will most likely be the result for a long time.Coticules do seem to require a heavy load of determination, stubbornness and willpower,to get an even,highly shaveable result. After a couple of months with no honing,it seems like I`m almost back to zero..

So,study Sir Barts well documented honing routines closely, follow them as close as you can,and do it again...and again..and again..

This is by no means meant to disencourage you,but there really are no shortcuts with coticules.

Offcourse,you have taken advantage of this forums honing service? Its a great means of comparison..Though I`ve always been dissapointed...with my own results ;-)

Well,good luck and let us know how you`re doing. And it might be a good idea to describe your project with a few more words ;-)

Kindest and most respectfull regards
Torbs
 
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