who said coticule prices are getting high?

Gunner777

Well-Known Member
That is just insane and it won't sell(I hope). I was talking to other people about newer members putting things on the classifieds at crazy prices and I sure wish they would stop trying to drive prices up or being greedy whichever is the motivation for it. Some razor prices are the same way. Honestly it makes me rather angry.
Escher prices have gone nuts also but people are starting to put the brakes on paying so much for them whether it's on ebay or a forum. I want another Escher in a larger size like an 8 inch length but I will not pay $500 or better for one!
 

Gunner777

Well-Known Member
I just talked to someone who told me that same stone sold a few months ago for $47! What a profit but again it will never sell.
 
G

Guest

It will sell. Because it is a deep rock made for export razors. And because it has a nice label. But most of all because it is much sought after.

And if you sniff the glue used with it, you will see colourful Dubl Sux all over the place. Promise.
 

mrmaroon

Well-Known Member
Some one will buy it. I will give it to him though, all his coticules have great stamping/label. The only way I would pay that is if I wanted it for a collection.
 

SliceOfLife

Well-Known Member
I think I saw this one go on eBay a couple months ago. Was in the low $100. An identical stone (same size and box etc) did sell for a LOT less (probably they $40 stone someone mentioned) a few weeks ago, but I doubt it was this one.

That said, It seems most of the guys flipping eBay stones on forums are profit seekers these days.
 

Gunner777

Well-Known Member
There is a lot of this for profit flipping going on lately. You'll see it on razors as well as other stones especially JNats.
 

sandcounty

New Member
Gunner777 said:
That is just insane and it won't sell(I hope). I was talking to other people about newer members putting things on the classifieds at crazy prices and I sure wish they would stop trying to drive prices up or being greedy whichever is the motivation for it. Some razor prices are the same way. Honestly it makes me rather angry.
Escher prices have gone nuts also but people are starting to put the brakes on paying so much for them whether it's on ebay or a forum. I want another Escher in a larger size like an 8 inch length but I will not pay $500 or better for one!
Just for the record, it isn't newer members that have driven up prices. It's mostly been the more experienced members who have been listing the big buck stones and razors. Sham sold a Deep Rock (of a different brand) last week for $350. He deletes his ads after the items sell. I don't believe the buyer was a newbie.

I assumed that the stones I listed last week would really only interest collectors. Maybe I should have stated that more explicitly. I thought it was pretty obvious being that they were NOS and/or rarely seen with labels in that condition.

Another senior member (been there from the beginning) has posted that he wouldn't ever sell his Deep Rock for less than $350. As far as I know it's the same stone.

So what are they worth? It seems that it not only depends on who's buying, but how many posts the seller has as well...
 

Gunner777

Well-Known Member
Sham sold a Salmon hone but I think it was somebody else with that Deep Rock? Regardless the prices are to darn high and seem to have gotten that way in just the last few months. Some Eschers are starting to come down in price though or so it seems.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Sandcounty,

In my opinion, the stone is your property and you are entitled to ask whatever price you want for it without any kind of formal justification. People are free to buy it at that price or not.

Good luck,
Bart.
 

Gunner777

Well-Known Member
Bart agreed that people can charge what they want. Don't you think prices have gone up a bit to much lately especially for the average person to afford.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Gunner777 said:
Bart agreed that people can charge what they want. Don't you think prices have gone up a bit to much lately especially for the average person to afford.
A standard Coticule of 40mmX150mm costs currently 42EUR at Ardennes. And I know there are resellers that drop below that official price. Giving time to develop the proper skills is all one ever needs for putting a perfect edge on a razor. There is no predictable difference between the edge of that hone and that of a vintage one, if discernible at all.

Only a few days ago, I read a statement on another forum, that the vintage hones are better. If you know how Coticules are extracted, that is a completely ridiculous statement, because a Coticule that is harvested today may have been located within very close distance of one that was extracted 100 years ago. That is because the older mining techniques did not always allow to reach the layers in their totality. Nowadays quarrying techniques for a part extracts Coticule that had to be left behind all this years ago. They are also extracting formerly untouched depths, but even then, Coticule layers were all formed 480 million years ago. A few decades more or less have no influence on the quality. It is certainly not so that the former mines picked the "good ones" first. Nonetheless, people will keep parroting that myth, and other guys will want to believe it. And they will pay big bucks for something you can by for less than a quarter of the prices, with a satisfaction guarantee by the guys that extract the same 480 million years old rock today.
At the same time, there are also people who collect these hones, produced by companies that stopped activities long time ago. For these gentlemen the box and label is almost as important as the stone itself. And they obey to the laws of demand and availability. Collectioning is an entirely different game, where the true function of the object and the price paid become disconnected from each other. I have no problem accepting that.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
I find it very interesting that only 2 out of 136 coticules are good enough for razors (one of which is salmon colored)....
 

wdwrx

Well-Known Member
richmondesi said:
I find it very interesting that only 2 out of 136 coticules are good enough for razors (one of which is salmon colored)....
For a while, I thought I had one of the 136.... all it took was the right hands....
But, Paul, IIRC, it was 3 of 136.;)

In response to the idea that "vintage hones are better" could it not be said that what was considered a desirable quality may have shifted over time? IE: speed of hone versus fineness? Or that maybe the finest hones tended to survive and the ones that weren't so fine were relegated to kitchen or shop duty? Hence the idea that "vintage is better".
Just looking for an explanation of a prevalent idea, regardless of it's veracity....


Cheers,
-Chris
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
wdwrx said:
richmondesi said:
I find it very interesting that only 2 out of 136 coticules are good enough for razors (one of which is salmon colored)....
For a while, I thought I had one of the 136.... all it took was the right hands....
But, Paul, IIRC, it was 3 of 136.;)

In response to the idea that "vintage hones are better" could it not be said that what was considered a desirable quality may have shifted over time? IE: speed of hone versus fineness? Or that maybe the finest hones tended to survive and the ones that weren't so fine were relegated to kitchen or shop duty? Hence the idea that "vintage is better".
Just looking for an explanation of a prevalent idea, regardless of it's veracity....


Cheers,
-Chris
um... I think most if it has to do with the fact that most guys don't take the time to really learn their stones well enough to get them to perform and instead of blaming themselves, they blame the amount of praise heaped on the stone to the vintage ones must be better. Who knows what's really going on with that, but the claim is specious at best, ridiculous and insulting to our intelligence at worst.

Regarding 2 vs 3... reverse fish story, I guess :p
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
3 out of 136???? Who is it that comes up with this garbage?:lol:

On the other hand…. I suspect there are some vintage Coticules not fit for sharpening razors... or anything else for that matter)… I have 2 in my possession… no matter how hard I try, just cannot get a razor shave ready... they wont even cut soft steel… anyone want to try one out?
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Smythe said:
3 out of 136???? Who is it that comes up with this garbage?:lol:

On the other hand…. I suspect there are some vintage Coticules not fit for sharpening razors... or anything else for that matter)… I have 2 in my possession… no matter how hard I try, just cannot get a razor shave ready... they wont even cut soft steel… anyone want to try one out?
Geologically, Coticules are extracted from the "Les Plattes" member of the Stavelot massive. Within "Les Plattes" there are 4 Coticule deposits. Tier d'Ol Preu, where the quarry is located has access to one of these deposits. The mine in Regné gives access to another deposit. All deposits contain, next to Coticule layers, also yellow layers of rock that has no, or almost no abrasive properties. Geologists call that pseudo-Coticule. At Ol Preu the situation is fairly simple. There's only one layer, called "La Veine aux Clous, that has only limited abrasive properties. But at other former mining spots, the situation was much more complicated, and I suspect that a less experiences miner could occasionally mix stones from a pseudo-Coticule layer with thos of a good layer. At Ardennes, the entire production passes through the hands of Maurice Celis, proprietor of the company. But I wonder if this was the same in the old days, when 100000's of Coticules were exported all over the world each year. I can imagine that some companies, at the verge of stopping activity, didn't worry too much about what they were shipping.

I would be happy to try these stones, Cedrick.

Kind regards,
Bart.

PS. I marked a few words in bold, to emphasize where I was speculating.
 

altshaver

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
that a less experiences miner could occasionally mix stones from a pseudo-Coticule layer with thos of a good layer. At Ardennes, the entire production passes through the hands of Maurice Celis, proprietor of the company. But I wonder if this was the same in the old days, when 100000's of Coticules were exported all over the world each year. I can imagine that some companies, at the verge of stopping activity, didn't worry too much about what they were shipping.
So, if I buy a coticule that was recently mined and sold from Ardennes Coticule, I can be rest assured that it is fit for razor honing? Or would I have to be more careful than this when seeking out a Belgian Coticule? Thanks for any input!
 
Top