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WILD coti

ovnifou

Active Member
Dear fellows coticulers,
I am working hard to learn working with coticules. From the JNats I am coming from, with a comfortable progression -won't do a complete story of my stones- I went to a nice "La Veinette" and "La Petite Blanche". The reason to change the routine is the tool's difference, as I just know to sharp and hone my knives and the tools I use to build my rods. Straight razors are new to me -less than 6 months-.
I started with a simple razor, that is not straight at any plan, vertically twisted, horizontally like an "S", really nice way to start:lol:
I tried unicot for the moement and the LPB is really a wonderful stone, thank you Maurice! nice slurry, fast stone, rebuilding an edge is not a problem and the finish is good, a little bit mellow, so here's the job for the LV. La Veinette is slow, very little slurry release and a friend of mine finished one of his razors with it and was flabergasted. I am NOT, as I can not control the animal, it reacts like a mustang, a wild horse, seems to be different every time I use it:confused:
So I try, I try, I try... my wife thinks she will call the hospital to offer me some vacation. I will NEVER surrender, I am like a Mule, slow but hard head, but do I HATE that stone at the moment:sneaky: :sneaky: :sneaky: :sneaky:
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Paschal. What is your exact problem with La veinette.Please give us what you do, step by step and where you loose the game.Do you use the HHT . Do you reach the violin.
I need at least these informations for the next help stage.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

justalex

Well-Known Member
I have no experience with your particular veins, but speaking as a coti newb as well; I had a problem similiar to yours and it came down to my technique.

The razor wasn't flat at all times on the hone
I ended up with different results every time.
Now I concentrate EVERY time I'm at my coti, which only happens an hour a day.
try only honing for an hour a day and build up your concentration levels

I treat it like learning an instrument; start by learning in short periods and build up
a pianist will start at intervals of half an hour practice and build up to a concert pianists practice routine (6-8 hours a day)

I was so determined to master my coti, I honed for 3 hours a day, which was wrong, I got frustrated and undesirable results followed.
My concentration slipped and I made more mistakes.
The brain has a process where if you learn something for an hour and leave it until the next day...
The brain will have been subconsciously working on the problems you encountered during your practice and will have 'practiced' them (best way I can think to put it)
So when you go back to your practice, you'll be better at it and it will seem like you don't know why.

I do this with my piano playing and used to do it with computer programming as well. it works for me as a quick means to learn, concentration's kept high, more learning in less time.


I don't say this as fact but, I'm sure it is one of the theories out there on how the brain learns


kind regards,
alex
 

ovnifou

Active Member
:confused: don't know what's going on, I posted an answer and just have seen it is not there?
Emmanuel, thank you for the help, I will try to be short and precise, just excuse my approximate english, I am french and german speaking, so the words are not always right.
I use the Unicot procedure, as it seems easier to start for a newbie. I asked Maurice 2 stones, one fast to rebuilt an edge and correct small nicks, one slow for maintaining the edge on "everyday" use for my straight razors. I am not new to sharpening and honing stones, using JNats for a long time for the tools I use to build bamboo fishing rods, but really an apprentice to straight razors and coticules.
So I started with the LPB and an old razor, not really straight but I won't cry if I destroy it. The result after 10 days was not perfect but usable to shave comfortably. The edge was a little bit on the mellow side, that is the reason I wanted I really good Veinette or La Verte. So I tried the LV for the second part of unicot procedure, building the secondary edge. Light slurry to start, 30 full passes, cleaning the stone, water only and 15-20 passes. The result is always worst than after the same procedure with LPB, whatever I try. I do not stress, I am patient and just make my exercises once every morning and a second time every evening. I am a fly tier so not nervous guy. I tried more slurry, creamier or more diluted, no slurry at all, nothing changes, the result is just bad. With LPB I can obtain a good HTT1 but even not HTT0 with the LV. A wild stone i am telling you, have to domesticate the beast:lol:
Maybe the blade is really too badly deformed but I feel anxious to give a try on my NOS Tanifuji Favorit or my Clauss. My shavers do not yet need a hone but I want to be ready when time will come:cry:
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Unicot should not be hard. If it is, something is wrong.

1. Please check the thickness of your tape. Make very sure it is 0.15mm or thicker. If you don't find that data on the tape manufacturer's website, just stack 10 small pieces of tape on top of each other, and measure the combined thickness. Divide by 10 to know the thickness of one layer.

Should your tape be only 0.10mm, use 2 layers for Unicot. (0.10mm may work on some Coticules, and some razors, but not for all Coticules and all razors)

2. Here's something to try: Perform all steps of Unicot on the Coticule that has worked for you so far (the La Petite Blanche). but only the final step on the other Coticule.
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Dry the edge carefully and check with the HHT at this point. The razor should pop the hair with ease. If not, add 30 additional laps on water. Dry the edge and check with the HHT again.

Should it still not pass the HHT (which would really surprise me), take the La Petite Blanche and try 30 laps on that one.


Kind regards,
Bart.

PS. Please keep us posted.
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Pascal. Will be redundancy giving you help after Bart. He perfectly advised.
One question only. Are you sure which stone is the LPB and which LV. Was marked by Maurise ?
Keep us informed.
Wishes
Emmanuel
 

ovnifou

Active Member
let's answer. the tape is exactly 0.15mm, checked with my micrometer -not a dial caliper, a micrometer-, thi sis swiss tape:lol:
the stones were labelled by Maurice himself. Just forgot to mention that LV has a crack, 1/4 of the stone length, Maurice told me it wasn't bad that is true. I lapped the stone and gave some passes along the crack with the slurry stone -sorry, no pics my daughter is away with the digital camera-
I use LV only on the last step, that was the meaning having two different pieces. I will wait for another razor to test, have a FLIC on the way, as the Tanifuji has a hard steel, has a perfect original edge. Maybe because of the warped blade does LV not give the best. Will tell you.
Thanks for all buddies advises
 

ovnifou

Active Member
Alright guys, I have to plaid guilty:blush: I was wrong and I just got it:w00t:
1st destroyed the edge, 2nd rebuilt it with a Honyama Ao -something like 1000 to 1500-, the 30 passes on a Sho Honyama that is a 6k approximately.
40 passes on LPB with medium-light slurry, the turned the stone -a hybrid- and 40 passes on BBW face, always medium-light slurry.
Took the wild Veinette, really light slurry for 20 passes and water only for 20x, cleaned the stone, new water, 20x more. I felt I was using too much water for the job on the Veinette, something like a "glide" over the stone, so I wet the stone and caress it with the inner hand, more damp than wet, feeling the light "bite" better, 2x 20 passes more

result? HTT3, just stropped and shaved, the best since a long time.
My hand have a bad habit working on strict progression on JNats, still have to work hard to learn the dilucot but have time, since I can shave well

Thanks to all the brotherhood of coticules:thumbup:
 

Pithor

Well-Known Member
ovnifou said:
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I had the same problem with my La Veinette. I noticed the problem was twofold: my slurry stone was too big and the stone is very pale, so pale it's hard to actually see the white slurry in the yellowish light that I have on my desk.
 

ovnifou

Active Member
Decided this morning to try dilucot with another razor. The one I choose for training was by far not my best but i didn't know it was so bad. I took my friend's Tanifuji that needed some work on the edge. First thing, the feedback of that blade on both stones -LPB and LV- is much better and smoother. The steel is much harder but the blade is straight and perfect. Finish on the LV with really light slurry, then 60 ultra-light strokes on damp stone, rinsed each 10 passes under running water. Now I really can feel why La Veinette has her fan club! just linen for 60x, then smooth leather and my friend had his most perfect shave.
So I can think that I had too many factors against me to start, new stones that I didn't know, totally different than the JNats I am use to work with, too much water for finishing on the LV and a razor that is much too warped and badly grinded from start, with a steel that I feel now not being the best.
I was so frustrating to read the procedures, to read the forum, to ask questions without knowing what was wrong! I can imagine that my handling of the LV was not the best and I still have everything to learn but I can now understand why some are giving up on honing!
Thank you for all nice advices I received from you and "Courage" for all beginners:w00t:
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Pascal i don't know if you have read my post natural on natural. I assume you have an arsenal of Jnat.Me i used a koma nagura to produce slurry on my heritage coticule. The result was perfect and easy. If you haven't a koma ,use a hard tomonagura to make slurry.You will feel that the abrasion is more finer than the slurry of coticule slurry stone. You don't need to finish on water. Me i left the
stone even when there was thin milky slurry on the surface.I got an HHT4 before stropping.
S'il vous plaît essayer
Cordialement
Emmanuel
 

ovnifou

Active Member
Thank you Emmanuel, nice trick to try! I do not have an arsenal of stones, just 6 and i am even not sure about the mining. These are not the nicest stones but they are doing the job on my tools. Never found better ones. I have some nice Nagura stones, will give a try on that method:w00t:
 
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