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#26 arrived...
- Thread starter maro
- Start Date
That's what I plan to do. I've taken the razor with me and hit the button as advised.
Now I'm waiting for the message from Bart with the address to ship it to (return address will be in Poland).
Unfortunately I can't benefit from Bart's offer in full, i.e. getting the replacement razor for the time of restoration of mine. I'll be wandering here and there, thus can't give any ship-to address, but never mind. I'll wait for the return of my own from Bart unless...
... I've recklessly taken also one of my Wapies with me and now I'm trying to repress the desire of trying it again with thinner slurry.
I've managed to stay away from the coti so far, but can't tell how long I'll stand up to it.
Now I'm waiting for the message from Bart with the address to ship it to (return address will be in Poland).
Unfortunately I can't benefit from Bart's offer in full, i.e. getting the replacement razor for the time of restoration of mine. I'll be wandering here and there, thus can't give any ship-to address, but never mind. I'll wait for the return of my own from Bart unless...
... I've recklessly taken also one of my Wapies with me and now I'm trying to repress the desire of trying it again with thinner slurry.
I've managed to stay away from the coti so far, but can't tell how long I'll stand up to it.
Bart
Well-Known Member
maro said:
Get your ass to Bart's honing school. Bring the wapi.
On a razor that already has a cutting bevel, even if that bevel needs some straightening out, the "next good bevel" never lies beyond the invisible. That means that a honing job will never demand for the removal of a visible amount of steel. The blade should look exactly the same as before honing, unless your deliberately were altering its shape.
Just something to remember when working on the Wapi.
Kind regards,
Bart.
PS. I'm sending the address later tonight, when I'm answering my e-mails.
Did as you ordered. Enrolled at your honing academy on an extramural course. Stayed silent and followed piously the materials (not stopping short of saying loudly "This is too thick" and "I'm not afraid of the water. I won't allow my slurry to become denser than this").
Unfortunately other tasks didn't allow me to practice every day, but I achieved my small victories getting a razor shaving arm hair a few times in a row (I haven't reached the step of sticking the insulation tape on yet).
One thing bothers me though: with the perfect stroke, should the edge cut into the slurry and spread it on the flank or should it push a small ripple in front?
Unfortunately other tasks didn't allow me to practice every day, but I achieved my small victories getting a razor shaving arm hair a few times in a row (I haven't reached the step of sticking the insulation tape on yet).
One thing bothers me though: with the perfect stroke, should the edge cut into the slurry and spread it on the flank or should it push a small ripple in front?
tat2Ralfy
Well-Known Member
maro said:Did as you ordered. Enrolled at your honing academy on an extramural course. Stayed silent and followed piously the materials (not stopping short of saying loudly "This is too thick" and "I'm not afraid of the water. I won't allow my slurry to become denser than this").
Unfortunately other tasks didn't allow me to practice every day, but I achieved my small victories getting a razor shaving arm hair a few times in a row (I haven't reached the step of sticking the insulation tape on yet).
One thing bothers me though: with the perfect stroke, should the edge cut into the slurry and spread it on the flank or should it push a small ripple in front?
Well done and good question :thumbup:
at first you will find the razors edge does indeed tend to push the slurry along, as the edge starts to gain in sharpness you will find it cuts through the slurry and most of it ends up sitting on top of the blade, this can become a very useful indication of progress esp during dilocut honings
Bart
Well-Known Member
:thumbup: What he said. :thumbup:
It really depends on many factors, like density of the slurry, how thick the layer of it on top of the hone, how "dirty" it is, etc.
For my honing, it really becomes interesting to watch what clear water does during finishing stages.
When the razor starts to "undercut" even a thin layer of water, that's when it's time for a HHT.
Way to go, Maro!
Bart.
It really depends on many factors, like density of the slurry, how thick the layer of it on top of the hone, how "dirty" it is, etc.
For my honing, it really becomes interesting to watch what clear water does during finishing stages.
When the razor starts to "undercut" even a thin layer of water, that's when it's time for a HHT.
Way to go, Maro!
Bart.
Sticking my neck out of the classroom to report on the progress (or rather the lack of aforementioned)...
I've finished the course and I'm getting the "shaving arm hair" stage recurrently with the regular X strokes even (for some reason half strokes don't suit me much, maybe because I block myself the view of the edge with my index finger during off-the-body motion). What I struggle with are the steps after application of the tape. No matter what I do, pitiful HHT-0 is all I can achieve. After stropping it raises to HHT-1/2.
I thought I'd have a brighter day yesterday as I finally (2 weeks of holiday followed by 2+ weeks of a business trip without coming to the office) collected the razor Sir Bart so generously has restored for me. :thumbup: I'd hit a TH@NK button now if I wasn't afraid of Enema Squad passing by on it's way to Matis.
I stropped the razor and started the shave and... what the f...k??? No stubble blown away, not even an ordinary comfortable shave. Grubbing out a forest would be easier and less painful.
What did I do wrong now???
The razor came from Bart in a perfect condition (a newbe like me couldn't even dream of a better honemeister). All I did was stropping. Poor skills? Does it matter that the canvas side has been applied with a significant layer of this stuff (while buying the strop I got influenced by the "if-you-buy-this-you-must-have-that" advert)?
The canvas got clogged so I scraped the paste with a knife spine but quite a lot of it remained. I'll probably need a toothpick to tease it out from among fibres.
Could you...
: ...HELP AGAIN PLEASE!!!
I've finished the course and I'm getting the "shaving arm hair" stage recurrently with the regular X strokes even (for some reason half strokes don't suit me much, maybe because I block myself the view of the edge with my index finger during off-the-body motion). What I struggle with are the steps after application of the tape. No matter what I do, pitiful HHT-0 is all I can achieve. After stropping it raises to HHT-1/2.
I thought I'd have a brighter day yesterday as I finally (2 weeks of holiday followed by 2+ weeks of a business trip without coming to the office) collected the razor Sir Bart so generously has restored for me. :thumbup: I'd hit a TH@NK button now if I wasn't afraid of Enema Squad passing by on it's way to Matis.
I stropped the razor and started the shave and... what the f...k??? No stubble blown away, not even an ordinary comfortable shave. Grubbing out a forest would be easier and less painful.
What did I do wrong now???
The razor came from Bart in a perfect condition (a newbe like me couldn't even dream of a better honemeister). All I did was stropping. Poor skills? Does it matter that the canvas side has been applied with a significant layer of this stuff (while buying the strop I got influenced by the "if-you-buy-this-you-must-have-that" advert)?
The canvas got clogged so I scraped the paste with a knife spine but quite a lot of it remained. I'll probably need a toothpick to tease it out from among fibres.
Could you...
: ...HELP AGAIN PLEASE!!!
Bart
Well-Known Member
I send my razors all stropped and ready to shave, Matt. All required is to wipe off the oil.
Not sure what happened. TI- white paste has a good reputation to touch up slightly dull razors. It is certainly not something to have on your daily canvas. Gary would know how easy it is the draw a bur on TI-paste (the dreaded "overhoning"). I have no experience with it. But I can tell you that pastes must never be allowed sitting like a fuzzy coat on the surface strop. (I'm not sure that's the case here).
So it seems safe to assume that the edge on the Dovo is gone. Just maybe there's still something resembling a bevel. (depends on how potent that white stuff is). So here's my suggestions. Watch the video for a while. Tape the spine of your razor with 2 layers of tape. Use only water. Make 50 laps. do the HHT. Rest for a while. Make 50 laps more. Repeat this 4 times. Hence a total of 200 laps, but do stop if you pop the HHT earlier.
Skip the canvas. Strop 100 laps on leather.
I would like to repeat that I have performed a Unicot at least once on all hones in the Vault (and on many more), and have popped hairs on the HHT after all of them. I checked your n°26 in the Vault. Being a narrow one, maybe you have a tendency to hit the rim of the hone with the edge. I had no problems with avoiding that, but it might be wise to put a bigger chamfer on the edge of that Coticule. Just wrap your slurry stone in some sandpaper, and rub it over the edges of the hone, under a running tap. Till you have a nice 45°(approximately) chamfer that's about 2 mm wide.
Keep us posted,
Bart.
Not sure what happened. TI- white paste has a good reputation to touch up slightly dull razors. It is certainly not something to have on your daily canvas. Gary would know how easy it is the draw a bur on TI-paste (the dreaded "overhoning"). I have no experience with it. But I can tell you that pastes must never be allowed sitting like a fuzzy coat on the surface strop. (I'm not sure that's the case here).
So it seems safe to assume that the edge on the Dovo is gone. Just maybe there's still something resembling a bevel. (depends on how potent that white stuff is). So here's my suggestions. Watch the video for a while. Tape the spine of your razor with 2 layers of tape. Use only water. Make 50 laps. do the HHT. Rest for a while. Make 50 laps more. Repeat this 4 times. Hence a total of 200 laps, but do stop if you pop the HHT earlier.
Skip the canvas. Strop 100 laps on leather.
I would like to repeat that I have performed a Unicot at least once on all hones in the Vault (and on many more), and have popped hairs on the HHT after all of them. I checked your n°26 in the Vault. Being a narrow one, maybe you have a tendency to hit the rim of the hone with the edge. I had no problems with avoiding that, but it might be wise to put a bigger chamfer on the edge of that Coticule. Just wrap your slurry stone in some sandpaper, and rub it over the edges of the hone, under a running tap. Till you have a nice 45°(approximately) chamfer that's about 2 mm wide.
Keep us posted,
Bart.
towliff
Well-Known Member
^^^ what Sir Bart said.
One day you will amaze yourself, and find that the razor pops HHT2 of the hone with ease.
That happened to me (using unicot). When I first got my coticule (arrived day before xmas eve - happy chappy!) I thought I "should" be getting perfect unicot edges straight away, as to say I'd studied Bart's techniques and related threads is gross understatement! In principle, I knew EXACTLY how to get the perfect edge from the unicot method. So how did I do? A few hours of honing and not even a violin....just could NOT get it! Frustration quickly ensued, which doesnt help the honing!
So anyway, after some practice (lots!) I finally honed out a HHT2 from the unicot method one day out of the blue! Since then, I havent had any problems doing that. Allthough I do cheat a little by going onto the BBW side of my combo with a medium slurry after the bevel setting stage on the coticule. The BBW is AMAZING! It takes the only just shaving arm hair from the coticule to a very high keenness level with little effort and little time - making a fantastic base for unicot. From here I tape up and do nomore than 20laps on a very very light misty slurry, then a tonne of laps on water - and voilaa - HHT2/3 almost everytime
One day you will amaze yourself, and find that the razor pops HHT2 of the hone with ease.
That happened to me (using unicot). When I first got my coticule (arrived day before xmas eve - happy chappy!) I thought I "should" be getting perfect unicot edges straight away, as to say I'd studied Bart's techniques and related threads is gross understatement! In principle, I knew EXACTLY how to get the perfect edge from the unicot method. So how did I do? A few hours of honing and not even a violin....just could NOT get it! Frustration quickly ensued, which doesnt help the honing!
So anyway, after some practice (lots!) I finally honed out a HHT2 from the unicot method one day out of the blue! Since then, I havent had any problems doing that. Allthough I do cheat a little by going onto the BBW side of my combo with a medium slurry after the bevel setting stage on the coticule. The BBW is AMAZING! It takes the only just shaving arm hair from the coticule to a very high keenness level with little effort and little time - making a fantastic base for unicot. From here I tape up and do nomore than 20laps on a very very light misty slurry, then a tonne of laps on water - and voilaa - HHT2/3 almost everytime
Sh...t!! I should have asked you before reaching out for the razor. Sorry for destroying your work, Bart.Bart said:
I'm affraid it is the case here. It's not fuzzy. It's a scraped yet covering coat. Am I to buy a new strop? Is there any way to get rid of the paste? Wash the strop (canvas part only, of course)?Bart said:
Watched the video. The rest I will do while back at home.Bart said:
Bart, I have no doubt that I'm the only one to blame, so no need to excuse. Maybe I'm just reaching the stage of sobbing that everybody rides a bike except me? :-/Bart said:
Certainly I will. Although I have to wait a few days till my face heals again.Bart said:
tat2Ralfy
Well-Known Member
maro said:
Its easy to clean the canvas if you take a little care, Sir Bart explains it very well in the stropping article of the Coticule Sharpening Academy,
http://www.coticule.be/stropping-a-straight-razor.html
do it and your strop lives again!!
And if you cant get the razor shaving right, send it to me and I will hone it for you :thumbup:
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
Just read this post. I have and may still use now and then.All i can say is i dout you will be able to get that stuff fully of the canvas. It's like putty.
You have to rub it well in. It's not agressive like diamond paste, it does work fast, You can tell it works well because your canvas will be black with just a thew laps.
I once stroped in a x pattern on my canvace ,i caught the edge in the toe area and it dulled my blade straight away. Trust me you flick your edge against the ti paste it will dull just like draging your edge down a glass jar.I would leave it on it serves it purpose. I have honed on milky slurry untill the edge has maxed out you could finish on water for 50 laps then do 15 light laps on canvas ti paste keeping the strop taught and just the weight of razor on it.It works perfect.
Once you master your coti you should be able to go with out any paste. I spoke to tim a while back he uses the ti paste and says it works for him every time.
You have to rub it well in. It's not agressive like diamond paste, it does work fast, You can tell it works well because your canvas will be black with just a thew laps.
I once stroped in a x pattern on my canvace ,i caught the edge in the toe area and it dulled my blade straight away. Trust me you flick your edge against the ti paste it will dull just like draging your edge down a glass jar.I would leave it on it serves it purpose. I have honed on milky slurry untill the edge has maxed out you could finish on water for 50 laps then do 15 light laps on canvas ti paste keeping the strop taught and just the weight of razor on it.It works perfect.
Once you master your coti you should be able to go with out any paste. I spoke to tim a while back he uses the ti paste and says it works for him every time.
OK, so here it goes:
Dovo: the blade seems to be dulled by me on the strop. I did 500 laps on water with 2 layers of the tape without success. Then I got an idea to try if it shaved arm hair (yeah, quite late, I know). It didn't. Bart, I'm terribly sorry for thwarting your efforts. Looks like I have to go through the whole unicot with it by myself now. But, as I don't possess those skills yet, I switched to #26 and another razor.
Wapi (the razor I was abusing after sending Dovo to Bart): It's edge was uneven right from the factory, I was in despair so I thought "what the heck, it can't be worse" and I started to straighten it with 45[sup]o[/sup] angle, as suggested by Smythe in one of the threads. I knew already how dense the slurry should be to quickly remove steel (I practiced that on Dovo unintentionally) so in an hour ot two it became quite stright. It took me so much time as I didn't use anything but coti 200x50 (not that I was so ambitious, I simply have no other honing stones than #26 and 200x50 coticules). After that I taped the spine (to protect it from wearing it out) and made bevels. Then I removed the tape, switched to #26 and went for a full unicot procedure and... surprise, surprise, on the end I reached HHT-2/3. Then I went for a strop (without the canvas of course) and shaved. I wouldn't call it a Shave Of The Year, but my chin didn't look like I had the last stage of haemorrhage fever at least. Honestly speaking, if I got such a shave with a disposable razor, I'd start thinking about throwing it away (but just start thinking about it). So, there is a light on the end of the tunnel for me (thank you Ralfy very much for your offer but now I'm encouraged with my latest achievement).
Strop: Thanks guys for all the advices. I'll go through them. In the worst case I'll either go to the cloakmaker and ask him to unpick seams and flip the canvas or buy a new strop (education costs money :-/ ).
Dovo: the blade seems to be dulled by me on the strop. I did 500 laps on water with 2 layers of the tape without success. Then I got an idea to try if it shaved arm hair (yeah, quite late, I know). It didn't. Bart, I'm terribly sorry for thwarting your efforts.
Looks like I have to go through the whole unicot with it by myself now. But, as I don't possess those skills yet, I switched to #26 and another razor.Wapi (the razor I was abusing after sending Dovo to Bart): It's edge was uneven right from the factory, I was in despair so I thought "what the heck, it can't be worse" and I started to straighten it with 45[sup]o[/sup] angle, as suggested by Smythe in one of the threads. I knew already how dense the slurry should be to quickly remove steel (I practiced that on Dovo unintentionally) so in an hour ot two it became quite stright. It took me so much time as I didn't use anything but coti 200x50 (not that I was so ambitious, I simply have no other honing stones than #26 and 200x50 coticules). After that I taped the spine (to protect it from wearing it out) and made bevels. Then I removed the tape, switched to #26 and went for a full unicot procedure and... surprise, surprise, on the end I reached HHT-2/3. Then I went for a strop (without the canvas of course) and shaved. I wouldn't call it a Shave Of The Year, but my chin didn't look like I had the last stage of haemorrhage fever at least. Honestly speaking, if I got such a shave with a disposable razor, I'd start thinking about throwing it away (but just start thinking about it). So, there is a light on the end of the tunnel for me (thank you Ralfy very much for your offer but now I'm encouraged with my latest achievement).
Strop: Thanks guys for all the advices. I'll go through them. In the worst case I'll either go to the cloakmaker and ask him to unpick seams and flip the canvas or buy a new strop (education costs money :-/ ).
Bart
Well-Known Member
[big]:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: [/big]maro said:
I really was getting slightly desperate.
If that result was straight off the Coticule, strop that edge to HHT-4. And you should be fine.
As far as the overpasted linen is concerned. Take a clean rag, rub 10 or 15 times, change over to a fresh part of the rag, rub again, change over again, etc. You'll get that linen clean. It may take 15 to 20 minutes, but it will work.
If the razor still lacks, strop 10 to 15 laps. Keep it real taut. Next hit the leather again.
Whenever you hone, always try shaving straight off the Coticule. That linen is a great failsafe, once properly pasted.
Well done, Maro:thumbup:
Bart.
No need to. As I said: it's me and only me that failed.Bart said:
Stropping is another skill that I need to practice, so on the beginning I'll be happy to maintain with the strop the endge I got from coti.
I was thinking about the reasons of my failures and my conclusion was that my understanding of slurry density references was totally different than yours.
What I saw in my head reading "cofee cream slurry" was this:
and not this:
When reading "misty slurry" I was thinking about this:
and not this:
After dilutting the slurry so it matched the latter pictures... voilà.
The short update:
I've taken another razor, Friodur, into use (I'll start a separate thread about it) and shaved with it. Despite I reached HHT-1 (violin) only off the stone and improved to weak HHT-3 after stropping (the current strop condition I'll also post in another thread), a bit depressed :cry: I shaved with it anyway. The shave turned out to be better than with Wapi (which was passing "higher" HHT grade). :w00t:
Yeah, I know what you say: HHT is just a reference and not an absolute value of its own.
The shave still calls for improvement (due to the lack of better reference point a shave with brand new disposable razor is top ranked on my list), the "crunchy" sound of removed stubble still can be heard but there is a light of hope on the end of the tunnel. :thumbup:
I've taken another razor, Friodur, into use (I'll start a separate thread about it) and shaved with it. Despite I reached HHT-1 (violin) only off the stone and improved to weak HHT-3 after stropping (the current strop condition I'll also post in another thread), a bit depressed :cry: I shaved with it anyway. The shave turned out to be better than with Wapi (which was passing "higher" HHT grade). :w00t:
Yeah, I know what you say: HHT is just a reference and not an absolute value of its own.
The shave still calls for improvement (due to the lack of better reference point a shave with brand new disposable razor is top ranked on my list), the "crunchy" sound of removed stubble still can be heard but there is a light of hope on the end of the tunnel. :thumbup: