A conversation about

[Bart]

This came up in the "Stones and Hones" forum. I'm continuing the topic here, because it's too off topic to serve Justin's Coticule n°7 thread, yet something I feel we should be able to openly discuss here on Coticule.be

Some peope may feel directly addressed by what I'm about to write. That isn't my intention. I'm only speaking about what I consider the "heart" of Coticule.be.

Call me naive, but I think some people blow honing waaaay out of the water. Now I need to learn how to use this Coticule to its fullest, then I can laugh at all the people that use 5 stones + paste to hone their razors.

ssssssssssssshhhhhh....

don't speak so loud.

Forums always attract geeks. Geeks are nice people. (I guess it takes one to know one:-/ )
Geeks use Oxigen-free copper wire to connect loudspeakers, because they hear the difference in sound. Geeks have computers with water cooling, because those are 0.35% faster than non-water-cooled computers, something they clearly notice while typing long responses at Internet forums. When geeks go hiking in the woods near their home town, they wear the newest Nasa approved rain coats and boots that have been tested by the great grandson of Roald Amundsen.

Marketeers love geeks, because they're always enthusiastically adopting new products. When geeks start honing razors, they like to use as many different hones as possible in the process. They don't like to be disturbed in that. And marketeers like it even less.

Don't spook the geek.
It's bad for business.

Time to repeat. I like geeks. They're nice people. I even think there's a geek in all of us. But does he need to be in control?

On Coticule.be geeks are welcome. But I hope we will never become a choir that says you actually need 3 different Coticules to hone a razor and an assortment of specially formulated diamond sprays to make it glide through the whiskers even better.
There are many good hones and many good pastes. As there are many good shaving soaps and creams. Some of us like to try it all, and of course, while being an expensive hobby, there's really nothing wrong with that, and even less with discussing the differences. But one doesn't need to use a forum to justify the expenses that come with such a hobby.

One of the reasons I love Coticules so much is because they clearly steer away from all that. They can't be hyped, because they've been around way too long for that. But they can't be denied either, for that same reason. A guy can buy one razor, one Coticule, a (boar) brush, a decent strop and a puck of soap. And shave happily ever after. All the rest is frivolous, in my opinion.

Looking forward to hearing some different viewpoints on this matter.
Best regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Thats just the way I see it too, whilst its very nice to own and enjoy several different Hones, a pile of different strops and paste combinations, 15 different brushes, a comprehensive Razor collection with every kind of grind from every manufacturer on every continent through the ages.... etc. We do not need too, businesses are happy to sell whatever your straight shaving heart desires whether its needed or not.
Having said that I prefer a Badger brush because its nicer to use, and I like a few Razors to choose from when I set up to shave, plus it gives me something to Hone and tinker with..using the strop/paste combination that I think will do the job.
Personally I like the education of it all, I like to learn about things I find interesting.
I too like geeks, I am not a geek but I, like most of us do have a geeky trait or 2. why do we choose internet forums to indulge in conversation about the things we enjoy? does that make us geeks? I think not what about you? whats makes a geek a geek in your opinion? is there a line to cross, between a passion for something, maybe having a slight compulsion? and full blown Geek?

 

[justin]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to offend anyone, or disparage the honing "culture". It was quite off topic.

I just think that people tend to overcomplicate the honing process. I fully understand the geek side of trying out, and testing the plethora of finishing stones. Testing the Coticule edge vs the thuringien vs escher vs Shapton 16k vs nakayama etc.

When I first got this razor, it was honed using (in total):

Naniwa SS 800 > Naniwa SS 5000 > Naniwa Chosera 10K > 3 laps on Chr. Ox. (yep just 3 laps).

That first ATG pass on my neck left an impression. It was like cutting through butter. The razor tended to just guide it's self up my neck, leaving my skin BBS. I can't see it getting any better than that. Maybe I'm just insensitive, and have a rhino's skin. Granted I don't have anything to compare that to, but I do know that I don't need anything sharper or smoother.

Looking at just the finishing process I feel that:

Whatever single finisher > Optional Crox / or optional Nakayama

is all you need.


I'm pretty geeky too, but I think I just as much have an engineering type mind. For me it's about efficiency, it's about the best value for the best performance, that sweet spot, I tend to not hang out in that area where the diminishing returns becomes laughable. For example, I built my current computer. It's quite geeky. Building your own computer is much much cheaper than buying a pre built one, and better overall. I found the components that offered the best value. I stopped where stuff starting to get exponentially more expensive, and I also didn't get anything more than I needed. Of course this beast is waaaaay obsolete only a few years later, but I'm going to run this thing into the ground.

As a few more examples, I have a Rooney Special ($40), but I can definatley see myself getting a super silvertip Rooney ($75). Nothing beyond that. I'll never pay $200 for a Filly, but I could see myself getting one razor around $130 (Le Grelot), more likely an $80 Puma or W&B, and I won't have more than a handful of razors. One thing that doesn't fit this, I think, is that I'll be getting a Kanayama strop, when I could just settle for an Illinois Russian, but I want a horsehide with good linen, because that's what keeps your edge going for a really long time. I can justify the greater expense since I'll be using the strop every day 60 linen 60 leather, and it's the single most important tool in a straight shavers arsenal.

When getting into this honing business I settled down on two options. DMT 600 & COticule or Naniwa 800/5000 combo & Naniwa 10k or 12k. Now that I think about it the Coticule might be considered niche/geeky even among the honing crowd, and unpractical. I chose the Coticule for the badassness of using one stone, and of course the romance involved in these stones, and for simplicity.

All that said, maybe it's just cause I don't have the experience, or maybe it's because I'm a poor college (uni for most of you folks) student.

Sorry Bart, I don't want this forum turning into the type where everyone argues.

Justin

 

[tat2Ralfy]

No one was offended Justin, we thought you raised a good point that was worth further discussion (right Sir Bart?)

I choose the coti path because the place I bought my first proper straight from sold them, and I thought "well I am not gonna pay someone to hone my razors for the rest of my life" so I bought one and loved it

Sh!t I didnt even know about synthetics etc hahaha

 

[justin]

I too like geeks, I am not a geek but I, like most of us do have a geeky trait or 2.

Same here. What would the world be without geeks?

why do we choose internet forums to indulge in conversation about the things we enjoy?

Do you know anybody that in person that is into straight razor shaving? Honing? Coticule honing?

I've never been an active member of a forum until I found B&B and accumulated a whopping 120 posts (or something), but now I haven't logged on in months. I don't really like talking on forums; I use them to get information. I would much rather talk in person, but it's kind of hard when we are all so spread out in the world. That's what you get with these niche hobbies. Maybe one day the Coticule Cafeteria can meet up and have some beers together.

Justin

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Maybe one day the Coticule Cafeteria can meet up and have some beers together.

Justin

Hey now your talking, Belgium is an easy enough trip for me, and the beer is nearly as nice as in Holland

 

[justin]

Hey now your talking, Belgium is an easy enough trip for me, and the beer is nearly as nice as in Holland

I have to go over the big pond, but I've been planning a trip over to Europe. I heard the Trappist beer over there is excellent. I wouldn't know, since my beer experience is limited to Bud Light, Corona, and Heineken. : If it were legal for me here, I'd be trying them all. We're so repressed over here. :cry: :

 

[tat2Ralfy]

TBH I was joking on the Beer Belgium beer is amongst the best in the world IMHO :thumbup: German is very good too but the exports are not a patch on the real deal, Sir Bart prob knows a lot more about it that than me, I am a Vodka Drinker. but I rarely drink to get drunk, although if I am on a drinking all night session (Our apprentice lives in His girlfriends parents pub) we drink "Turbo Shandy" 1/2 pint of Fosters Lager mixed with 1/2 pint Smirnoff Ice! the first 3 make you feel like you are getting drunk, but then it seems to level up and the next 9 or 10 just keep you level, its an odd one.

So you are under 21 and drinking is not legal in the states til then? I always heard that Americans are not too alcohol tolerant anyway .... lol:

 

[justin]

but I rarely drink to get drunk

Hear, hear. It seems like all my college peers want to do is get total wasted.

So you are under 21 and drinking is not legal in the states til then? I always heard that Americans are not too alcohol tolerant anyway .... lol:

Yeah I'm under 21. Sigh. I here that the English drink like they don't want to live. :

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Yeah there is a drinking culture here that I have never belonged too, I consider them to be savages :thumbdown:
My Alicia and I have a vodka and coke every evening but it almost always just one, TBH until recently I subscribed to other ways of getting wrecked. (ahem) I come from a biker background and spent over a decade in a motorcycle club (read gang)the 21 law sounds harsh, but you do have firearms, and you can drive when your like 16 right? so its not all bad, oh yeah apart from being full of Americans (jk) :

 

[justin]

the 21 law sounds harsh, but you do have firearms, and you can drive when your like 16 right? so its not all bad, oh yeah apart from being full of Americans (jk) :

Yeah, you can get any gun you want here. I'm not into guns though, even though I grew up in Northern Michigan. And I don't like driving, I don't know what driving is like in the UK but, it absolutely sucks here. Nothing like coming to a complete stop on a highway with a speed limit of 70. : I prefer taking the train. :thumbup:


Wow, this thread has become increasingly off topic. Much like the comment that started it. :

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Oh Yeah
Hahaha:

 

[davek]

I must confess, I am, and probably always be, a geek! The difference is I am a geek that is trying to purge a lot of my stuff in an effort to get down to what is really needed. I'm making progress, but I'm not very good at purging old stuff. The coticle is fascinating due to it's ability to do so much.

My geekness has led me to my current experiment: "Tea Totaler 2009". Here's a kooky thing to do. Buy a 1/4 pound of "organic dragon well tea" and keep track of how many cups you get per 1/4 pound. I'm trying to determine the cost per cup. Although it doesn't really matter cause I really like the tea.

I'm not a gun guy, however I am a huge fan of Belgian ale. In fact I'd rather be counting the number of Chimay Blue Labels I drink than cups of tea. But the numbers would be dissapointing or I'd never get anything done!

Thanks for the pm Ralfy. Namaste! Yes, I am a registered yoga teacher. Yoga played a great part in helping me through my MS journey. I only mention it because of your (ahem) getting wrecked comment. I am also a great fan of medical marijuana. It has really been a great help to me and 1000's of others with multiple sclerosis and other ailments.

Don't drink and drive / No honing while stoning!

Bottom line is that I am a knucklehead! And I love every minute of it!

My best to you all!

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Amen Dave, yeah I dont do guns, guns kill things! and I am weed free for nearly 3 yrs after a 20 year habit, (20 yrs!! everyday!!!)
I believe a little medicinal is very good but being a stoner for half of your life isnt...lol
Thats not to say I live a pure life, but hey life is for living after all :thumbup:

Good luck with the MS journey my new chum, I thank and respect you for taking that path on our behalf. Shaving with a Straight and having MS, now thats living on the edge!

Namaste

 

[garyhaywood]

after reading on srp i admit i went over board spent way to much money and i soon realized people were promoting certain hones and then i realized they were stocking them its just a money making game to some people. I sold most of my hones and razors . I like to have a nice set of razors i 'm down to 10 now. I can get some dovos in the trade at half the price so it quite handy. When i first read about coticule my initial thought was one hone that can do it all that s why i got my self one and i soon found out that my hone can do just that. i compared differant hones they all work differant finishing hones i never noticed any massive differances first time i got the edge bang on of coti i noticed dufferance in smoothness straight away they are very hard to beat in my opinion.

my old mate jim and his dad used one for years in the barbers shop a strop and some roug nothing else not even a barbers hone. when i get chance i will do articule on the history of my barbers shop that has been est since 1934 jim still works one day a week he's now 79 he last shaved with his dad 50 years ago untill it was banned through health and saftey. he taught me how to hone on his coticule and was that dished that must of seen athew razors in its time i carn't believe i had a clear out and chucked his old strop and hone this was some 13 years ago i still have one of his dads razor he gave me a john clarkes& son and i would say its one of if not my best shaver.

 

[Bart]

This thread is starting to sound like an AA-meeting...
I don't do narcotics myself, too much a control freak I guess. I've been really drunk a couple of times between the age of 15 and 18. Then I decided it wasn't for me. I just get very very tired from alcohol. I don't seem to have that "having fun" window that most people seem to display before they enter the sleepy stage.
But I like beers and other alcoholic beverages from a culinary viewpoint. I ran a beer specialized pub from 1992 till 1997. (It still exists today) We carried about 100 different beers, mostly Belgian. There is no country more densely packed with (micro)breweries worldwide than Belgium, and you won't find a wider variety of different styles anywhere. I can talk about beers all day and then about whisky and Calvados all night. But I'm not going to bore you guys with that right now.
Cigars is another culinary passion. I smoke about 1 every fortnight. Only the premium brands. A good cigar has to be worth the health risk.:

Dave, I sympathize with your health condition. I hope it transgresses at the slowest possible rate, or rather not at all. Life seems to offer you unique perspectives, and I'm glad to have you around.

Actually, I'm glad to have you all around. We seem to be a very colorful bunch around, here in the Cafeteria, and still it is very obvious to me that we have more in common that just shaving "straight" and honing on a Coticule. I imagine it takes a particular type of character to take that route for shaving, an activity that most people find rather trivial.

Gary, I can't wait to hear more about the history of your barber store, but that you already know.


If any of you guys ever come to visit Belgium, don't hesitate to let me know. It would be my honor to offer a roof and a bed for a couple of nights. That offer comes with free Belgian beers. And a honing session B)

Cheers,
Bart.

 

[justin]

Great posts everyone. :thumbup:

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you Bart. I grew up in a small town, and everyone in my school was a pothead. I didn't care for it though, it just didn't do it for me. As for alcohol, I love it, but I don't like taking it to the point that some people do. :thumbdown: Lately I've taken an interest in cigars; I'd really like to try one. Bart, you think you could recommend me a first cigar? Where can you buy singles online?

Actually, I'm glad to have you all around. We seem to be a very colorful bunch around, here in the Cafeteria, and still it is very obvious to me that we have more in common that just shaving "straight" and honing on a Coticule. I imagine it takes a particular type of character to take that route for shaving, an activity that most people find rather trivial.

This is something I think about sometimes. I really like how forums bring together such a diverse group of people. It would never happen in real life. Would you guys ever hang out with a young dude like me? Would I ever hang out with an ancient dude like Ralfy? I'd probably give Ralfy one look and think, "Man, that guy looks ancient. And he was probably in a bike gang. Why would I hang out with him?". :

If any of you guys ever come to visit Belgium, don't hesitate to let me know. It would be my honor to offer a roof and a bed for a couple of nights. That offer comes with free Belgian beers. And a honing session B)

Cheers,
Bart.

Cheers mate,
Justin

 

[davek]

Our ancient looks are mysteriously hiding a wealth of life experiences.

And yes I would hand out with a young dude! Actually I still feel like a young dude even at 51 :

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Would I ever hang out with an ancient dude like Ralfy? I'd probably give Ralfy one look and think, "Man, that guy looks ancient. And he was probably in a bike gang. Why would I hang out with him?". :

Heres one of me, needing a little quiet time at work.

Bwhahahahaha

Seriously though, it would be a pleasure to meet up with any of you guys, I guess 1 of the benefits of forums is that we dont get to see the other members, I only know what Sir Bart looks like because of His BBW video and the write up He did about his visit to the quarry

Justin, would you believe Sir Bart and I are the same age!

 

[justin]

But Bart looks so young! Bart, anyone ever tell you you look like Le Comte de Monte Cristo? : Reminds me of the Modern Library Clasics cover art. : Nice stache, by the way.

Do you longboard Ralfy?