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BBW Success!

thanks

Member
Just today I was looking at my Swedish frameback and thinking that I've been disappointed with it's keenness. I've been getting good results with dilucot on my other razors, but this one falls a little short and I could only get it to do HHT-1. I figured I'd just take it to the BBW side of my La Petite Blanche with thick slurry, dilute in between each set of 15 x-strokes until it felt right to move on, then I splashed a large amount of water making the slurry fairly watery, and I finished on the BBW side about 30 laps with this slurry. Then it was just a matter of taking it to the Coticule side and doing about 60 feathery x-strokes.

The razor was popping hairs all over, with a variance of HHT-4 to HHT-5 along the entire length of the blade. Just test shaved with it, and it passed with flying colors.

Just wanted to pass along a fairly easy way of getting that extra bit of keenness if you don't feel like using tape or redoing a dilucot. The hone was a 50mm X 200mm La Petite Blanche for those wondering the size.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Excellent! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Thanks for sharing. BBW's are underestimated, that's for sure.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Soooo, Bart--when are we going to learn the results of the Great BBW experiment? And more importantly, you teased us with a post a week or ten days ago about getting "the last bit" out of your coticule and I have been eagerly awaiting the answer ever since. That was diabolical of you, you know. On pins and needles in the South...

Denny
 

wdwrx

Well-Known Member
ya WTH?!?!? I've seen a hint or two....

But TBH, I've tried it, just about as Thanks described it, and it looks like a very promising edge. The blade is lined up and due for a test shave next time around. I haven't had much luck in the past using the BBW on my old "vintage" but the BBW I got from Danjared has all kind of those pink dots in it that are said to make a good hone and it seems to be quite an effective stone. It sure does seem like a slow stone though... I wonder where the heck this 4K rating the stone got came from. (don't flame me... I am simply referring to the common parlance on some sites.)

Regards,
-Chris
 

thanks

Member
I think the slowness of the stone aids it in it's ability to easily reach an excellent keenness, but that's an amateur observation. What's promising is that it was my first attempt, and I had great success with it. I just tried it on another one of my razors, but it didn't work as well. At least it didn't pass HHT like my frameback, so I'm kind of left scratching my head on that one. I'll have to figure out where I went wrong and do some more experimenting.

I think the BBW allows for a little sloppier dilution, so when Bart's BBW experiments are finished I think we might find the method much easier and less fickle than dilucot while getting the same results. I hit major strides with dilucot not too long ago, but I'm still not as consistent as I'd like to be with it. Either way, I predict a mad rush on natural combo Coticules whenever the research is finished as people will probably be raving about it. Everyone around here should jump on one now while the prices are low, and when the word gets out (maybe on one or two forums?) everyone else with HAD will buy them all up at the escalated price giving Ardennes enough money to move to the other mine! :w00t:

What's funny is that straight off the hone the frameback really didn't seem promising. The edge actually seemed like my less than successful dilucot attempts, but stropping made a huge difference as it usually does.

To add specificity to my op, when I said I diluted the slurry "when it felt right," I was making assumptions everyone reading looks for an undercutting of the slurry along the blade's length. The purple slurry on the BBW makes the undercutting very obvious on the shiny metal, along with some feedback and sound it's much more obvious as to when you should be moving on. I imagine this will help me when doing regular dilucots as well.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Very well done there Thanks :thumbup:

Using a BBW in a progression with a Coticule is a very effective honing method indeed

Best Regards
Ralfson
 

Woodash

Well-Known Member
I raise a question:

Many (perhaps most??) BBWs have very low garnet contents (often <3-4%). What is contributing to the abrasion in these hones and what are the implications when slurry is diluted?? I have some thoughts on these and related matters that I will be posting in another thread sometime soon, but for now, I throw out the question.
 

Tok

Well-Known Member
Woodash said:
I raise a question:

Many (perhaps most??) BBWs have very low garnet contents (often <3-4%). What is contributing to the abrasion in these hones and what are the implications when slurry is diluted?? I have some thoughts on these and related matters that I will be posting in another thread sometime soon, but for now, I throw out the question.

Are you sure? According to Ardennes-Coticule, they contain 20-30% Garnets. On belgischer-brocken.com is a picture of the slurry. Look at "infos", third post in the first column. Not much to see, though.

Regards,
Tok
 

Woodash

Well-Known Member
Tok said:
Woodash said:
I raise a question:

Many (perhaps most??) BBWs have very low garnet contents (often <3-4%). What is contributing to the abrasion in these hones and what are the implications when slurry is diluted?? I have some thoughts on these and related matters that I will be posting in another thread sometime soon, but for now, I throw out the question.

Are you sure? According to Ardennes-Coticule, they contain 20-30% Garnets. On belgischer-brocken.com is a picture of the slurry. Look at "infos", third post in the first column. Not much to see, though.

Regards,
Tok
You have discovered the reason for my inquiry. I am sure - at least for the several stones for which I have data.
 

wdwrx

Well-Known Member
hhhmmm. and i've recently seen a reference to garnet content in coticules being as low as 20%, which is lower than previously stated. The common reference was closer to 40% IIRC. Most curious!

TBH, if I had had no foreknowledge at all, I would have made the assumption that the BBW side was the finer of the two stones, based on it's abrasive speed and edge refinement (as I'm slowly learning it's quite good at). As I mentioned earlier, I'm baffled by the common reference to the grit rating some have applied to the BBW... did they try this stone before calling it what they did?
 

DG7

Well-Known Member
I have nothing to add, except that last night, I did the bevel correction and dilution stages of Dilucot on my BBW (which has a pretty dense concentration of pink spots), followed up by finishing on a Coticule with just plain water. Slurry was thicker on the BBW than I normally do for Coticules. Got a pretty good shave.

Looking forward to the results of the research!
 

Woodash

Well-Known Member
wdwrx said:
hhhmmm. and i've recently seen a reference to garnet content in coticules being as low as 20%, which is lower than previously stated. The common reference was closer to 40% IIRC. Most curious!

TBH, if I had had no foreknowledge at all, I would have made the assumption that the BBW side was the finer of the two stones, based on it's abrasive speed and edge refinement (as I'm slowly learning it's quite good at). As I mentioned earlier, I'm baffled by the common reference to the grit rating some have applied to the BBW... did they try this stone before calling it what they did?
Chris -
According to The Information Mine (FAQ), the garnet content of the BBW ranges to ~25% (coticule up to ~40%). Bart's write up indicates that the lower garnet content and slightly larger size of the garnets is what is responsible for the BBW having a 'sharper limit' at an equal slurry thickness - e.g., less dulling effect of the slurry, and wider, but less deep cutting action of the BBW garnets. I think this is right on target.

I also think that for many low garnet BBWs, there are other factors going on as well. As I continue to think about some of this stuff, I'm also not so sure that grit rating makes a lot of sense to me with regard to many naturals. In addition to the above, I think it also has something to do with the rate of release of garnets to slurry (degree of cementation in the stone) as well.

Anyway...:blink:
 

deighaingeal

Well-Known Member
I don't know much about grit ratings and whatnot, but what I do know is that I am more consistent off of my BBW than any other stone in my arsenal including synthetics. I also have the advantage of having my best shaves coming consistentloy off of my BBW over any other stone.
In regards to that I haven't spent enough time yet with my les lat, so this may change.
 

Woodash

Well-Known Member
Just to clarify: I'm not questioning anyone's method or results.

We know that many BBW have very low garnet contents and a relevant question is 'what else is contributing to the abrasion'? Could this explain why some folks have better results than others?
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Woodash said:
Just to clarify: I'm not questioning anyone's method or results.

We know that many BBW have very low garnet contents and a relevant question is 'what else is contributing to the abrasion'? Could this explain why some folks have better results than others?
This and one of your previous posts lead me to ask "what is polishing" versus "honing". Isn't polishing a good thing, and can you polish a completely finished dilucot edge, or since the polishing medium is softer than the steel, will it cut into the stone and dull the edge if pushed edge first? (I'm getting even more confused than normal). Is the material in the BBW that is not garnet good for this? I was also thinking that even slate backing might be good for polishing, but have not tried it. Aren't some four sided strops fit with a slate component? C'mon, Dirtman, what is going on here? YT, Denny
 
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