Before the coticule

Jantjeuh

Well-Known Member
Hey lads,

I spent a lot of time reading many posts here yesterday and as far as I understand, it is OK to discuss other stones as well here. And considering many of you use a coticule, I feel like I will get the best advice from here.

So, I have a coticule and a BBW, both great and I wouldn't mind another coticule if only it would make sense besides pure addiction :p

However, what I noticed, when I buy a second hand razor, the edge is usually FUBAR. And the only way to get it back to life is to breadknife the poor razor on some coarse sandpaper.

Now, I have seen that they sell 300 Grit, knife sharpening stones for a few EUR, truly almost for free. I was wondering if that's ok or way to coarse for doing that breadknifing (to replace the 'expensive' sandpaper).

Also, as for the stone that I would use for more serious bevel setting, I feel it is a waste to do that on the coticule, as it takes a very long time, and makes me feel sorry for the darn coticule. So I read here and there about one hone to add to the bunch. The one thing I understood was the DMT-1200 would be a good addition. But where on earth do the Belgians among you get this stone? Is there another one you would suggest, more readily available in Europe (Belgium) ?
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
Yes you can use the DMT-1200, you can also use an old knife sharpening stone, or in a pinch, the same sandpaper on a smooth flat surface such as a sheet of glass and breadknife the edge or set the bevel (unless the sandpaper is glued to the smooth flat surface it will tend to curl and not stay flat so bear that in mind if setting bevels).
In my opinion anything less than 500 grit is too coarse for a razor especially a thin hollow ground. So when I need to get a butter knife dull eBay razor shaving sharp I use 3 different stones.
I consider a Coticule garnets too expensive to set a bevel (like using a sports car for a TAXI) so I use an ordinary SIC sharpening stone somewhere around 500 to 800 grit, lapped smooth but cuts steel incredibly fast, and leaves a nice clean and consistently “toothy” edge that will easily cut arm hair (maybe with a little tugging). I then move on to the BBW and lastly the Coticule.

Drop by your nearest hardware store and pick up a double grit (medium and fine) sharpening stone to breadknife or set your bevel if you cannot find a DMT.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
As said from me too
I use a cheap combination stone, medium-fine for heavy work, and if I can I tape the spine to save it from damage, a little care spent with one of these can save a lot of time on the coticule, and a few thousand Garnets as well :thumbup:

The DMT is according to those that can afford one a very very nice hone, but its cost can be a little high, I already had my cheap combi stone unused when I started honing, so I just stuck with it.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
The coarsest grit i have i 6x2 dmt1200 i used it on big chips and rebuilding bevels its a great tool to have i have 325c i use that for all my lapping
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
For bevel rebuild, afinebench hone will do. "fine", by definition of knife and chisel sharpening is 400-600 grit.
Stay away from dirt cheap gray carborundum whetstones sold at cheap tool discounters like Gamma and Brico.

Here's a link to a Belgian store where you could order a decent 400/1000 grit synthetic combination hone at a sweet price.
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Another great European resource for tools in general and sharpening stones in particular is Dieter Schmidt's website in Germany (there's an icon at the bottom to change from German to English)
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I'll sell you my DMT-E (1200 grit) at half price of a new one, if you really want one, but I assure you that it isn't much faster than a Coticule with slurry.

Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Hey Sir Bart I see Dieter Schmidt's website is selling Belgium Breccia from Ardennes?
Do you know anything about these stones?
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
Hey Sir Bart I see Dieter Schmidt's website is selling Belgium Breccia from Ardennes?
Do you know anything about these stones?
It's just another name for Coticules. Because of the bout shapes, the Germans call them Belgischer Brocken. (Breccia is "Brocken" in Latin).
 

Jantjeuh

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
I'll sell you my DMT-E (1200 grit) at half price of a new one, if you really want one, but I assure you that it isn't much faster than a Coticule with slurry.

Bart.
I'll take your word for it :)

Thanks for the generous offer, if you say it isn't much faster I'll stay away from it.

But do you mean you will set a bevel on a coticule with slurry even if the thing has no bevel what so ever? Doesn't that take forever?
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
You could do with somthing coarse may be 220 norton 1k combo hone or just 220 norton i never tryed the 220 my self .
 

justin

Well-Known Member
I use a DMT 600, and it does work! I can't imagine using anything coarser on a straight razor. It doesn't cost much more than any other similar grit hone, and you don't have to worry about it being flat, or clogging up with swarf. However, I find it to be excessively large at 8x3, and it weighs a ton. It's a good option, I think.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
First off, I try to avoid the term "bevel setting". It's too imprecise.

- Bevel rebuild: creating a new cutting bevel after completley removing it by "breadknifing"

- Bevel repair: working out damage or corrosion

- Bevel correction: making the faces of a cutting bevel flat and fully extending on an undamaged, yet dull razor.

A Coticule with slurry works well for bevel correction and reasonably well for small bevel repair. For medium bevel repair, I use a DMT 600 grit. For heavy bevel repair and bevel rebuild I start at a DMT 325.

I ordered my DMT's in the US, but you need to avoid customs and accept that their will be decent postage costs.

The combo stone from the Koordenwinkel in Antwerp (see my other post) is really a good alternative.

Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
justin can they be purchased in 6x2 size? i agree thats why i like my dmt1200 flat for sure and no soaking i just clean mine with nail brush and some jiff cream thats it
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
justin can they be purchased in 6x2 size? i agree thats why i like my dmt1200 flat for sure and no soaking i just clean mine with nail brush and some jiff cream thats it
Yes.
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They're on Ebay as well and ship internationally. Very competitive prices.
 

justin

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
For medium bevel repair, I use a DMT 600 grit. For heavy bevel repair and bevel rebuild I start at a DMT 325.
I was going to say I find that It worked well for some very minor chipping, but I think it would be to slow for anything significant.

Bart said:
garyhaywood said:
justin can they be purchased in 6x2 size? i agree thats why i like my dmt1200 flat for sure and no soaking i just clean mine with nail brush and some jiff cream thats it
Yes.
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They're on Ebay as well and ship internationally. Very competitive prices.
Damn. I tried a few sites, and couldn't find anything smaller. Oh well. That's probably what I get for looking at the "main" places. :lol: Those guys like BIG hones.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
Thats a nice set up the 400/1k combo from koorden can the site be transferd to english bart?
Part of their website in available in English, but not the kitchen cutlery section, where that hone is offered. They have a shaving section as well, and a section about the beautiful Laguiole pocket knives, both available in English.
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Jantjeuh

Well-Known Member
It's not German, it's Dutch :) (or Flemish if you want eheh).

Hey Bart and others, that Kai stone, can anyone give some more details on that? I like the idea of a non European stone very much but I wonder what this is. I googled a little but didn't find, sorry if I'm asking silly questions once in a while, it is in my nature :blush:

And yep, I was speaking about bevel rebuild.

I got a 400 grit 'diamond plate' from Lidl for 1 EUR yesterday, but I highy doubt it's suitable for a razor and am not about to risk ruining my latest and greatest... Bartmann! Is there a gallery or so where we can show of our stuff? B)
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Jantjeuh said:
That Kai stone, can anyone give some more details on that? I like the idea of a non European stone very much but I wonder what this is. I googled a little but didn't find.
Research for Kai Shun. They make knives and hones. That one is a synthetic combination hone, ceramic cutting particles. Known to cut rapid.
Jantjeuh said:
Is there a gallery or so where we can show of our stuff? B)
Due to bandwidth restrictions, we can't support the upload of pictures to the server, but you can link to pictures hosted elsewhere so they show up in your posts.
How to do that is described here:
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