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coticule/thringian/12k naniwa

It looks like we are talking about achieving a bit extra keenness? Maybe one needs to plan ahead (and buy a combo), if cost is the concern...
I wouldn't advise anyone to purchase a Naniwa 12k just for this. The 12k has never done anything for me that a BBW couldn't to squeeze a little more out of an edge. I find it to be an extremely limited hone, since I do not shave off of it.

Given that many already have a BBW, cost is zero. But in any case a suitable BBW is much more reasonable than the 12k. A good barber's hone will also accomplish the same. But if someone is looking for a larger hone, maybe my points aren't so useful.

regards,
Torolf
 
And lets not forget, a £70 Bout will do everything from setting bevels through to finishing, and last a lifetime :thumbup:

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
I enjoy using both the Naniwa's and a Coticule. I really like the edges off of both. I guess I just like variety. Nothing wrong with expanding your horizons.
 
2nd night w/ the N12. 'Very impressed. Alot of bang for the buck.

I first tried 5 blades using a scaled back formula from another user - 20 circles, 20 x-strokes. Very keen, but quite crispy. 20 circles, then 50 x-strokes on the asagi, and the smoothness was back w/ no loss of keenness. First full wet shave brought a ho-hum no name Soligen to Wow status.

6 more blades tonight. One got 20 strokes N12, 25 La Dressante. Dressante dulled the keenness. 5 more strokes N12 and it was back.

5 blades got simply 5 strokes N12 (one got 10 - needed more help). Each delivered mostly hht4s.

I only have about 45 blades done on a coti, so I'm guessing my skill level prevents my getting these results regularly on the coti. I'm envious of those who get it reliably. Regardless, 5 strokes vs 100 on the coti is no small difference. Another variable is that my Dressante is 2" wide, vs 3" wide for the N12. I find a perfect stroke easier to do on the wider stone.

'Seems the short version is that my result appear to mirror Gary's. It was his comments that piqued my interest in the N12. I'm glad he posted about it.
 
It is a good way of uping keeness. using it inbetween . You should not need to do the circles, to crispy to me means over done. You should depending how far behind of your coticule is , only need 10 or another 10 then finish with natural hone (coticule thury etc)Or shave of naniwa. the hht can increase then after coticule slightly decrease. That does'nt mean you decreased keeness, it may be the edge is just smoother and not grabbing as eaily. I find hht of coticule has a fel of its own, of paste its differant again, also of naniwa differant again. If you sent me a razor and i performed hht i could possibly be able to tell if the razor was finished on paste or hone ,just by te way the hair would sever or pop.

I will state its very possible to acheive the upmost of a coticule if so there is no need for further treatmant. If not whip the 10 or 12k inbetween and dial in the keeness . then finish on coticule. It does work. i have just my 10k naniwa now and i will always hold on to that just incase. Other wisw i find 10 to 15 laps on cr.ox spray as a inbetween works like a charm. the spray is awsome stuff ad leave's a very nice edge. Its the best crox i have used till now. Plus its on felt on padle . so i can still touch up on coticule. I even like the crox spray better than ti paste so far.

gary
 
Great thread! :thumbup:

I would like to add something about the HHT, but first a little something about my experience with synthetic hones.

I can't comment on the Naniwa Superstone12K, because I 've never used it. But I do own a Naniwa Chosera 10K, and albeit a different hone, I think it behaves more or less the same, meaning: like a typical high-grit synthetic whetstone.
It's not difficult to end up with a slightly too keen edge on the Chosera. Some people will refuse to call it that way, probably out of a certain machismo, but to me, an edge that shaves effortlessly, looks perfect under the microscope, yet degrades my skin condition after one or two shaves in a row, I call "too keen". It not only severs beard hairs easily, but also catches skin cells at the same effort.
Obviously, this is a variable that will differ individually and also personal shaving style will have its influence. I could get totally effortless shaves from a Chosera10K edge. Shaves that left my skin without any trace of remaining stubble. Though at the same time unaccountable bleeding specks emerged randomly spread, and after two shaves my skin would become strangely fuzz-looking. 10 swipes over a Coticule with water and these ill edge effects are completely gone. Has the Coticule "dialed back keenness?" I believe it has, and it doesn't bother me in the least. It is called shaving, which is something men occasionally do. Not some kind of "Look ma, I am wielding the sharpest blade in the Northern Hemisphere"-contest for guys that never quite developed past adolescent insecurities.

But I was planning to add something about the HHT. In my experience, the HHT really must be interpret differently with each different hone one utilizes. That is certainly true when we discern between hones of different families, but even within the Coticule family, the HHT will display different responses between various specimen. La Grosse Blanches, e.g. are Coticules off which I generally do not expect jaw dropping HHT-scores. I just try to get it as high as it will go, often that is a "fumbled" HHT-3 at 8mm from the holding point, on a thick hair only, and after stropping such edges will be hard to beat for comfort, and they shave as effortlessly as the Chosera.

There were times where I would refuse to test shave if my HHT off the stone was any less than a clean HHT-3, bordering on 4. In retrospect, and with what I have learned since then, I am sure that I missed out on some great edges. The message is to only rely on the finer readings of the HHT with confidence, after you really became thoroughly acquainted with the exact hone you're using.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
^^^^^^^ I couldn't agree more :)

Wonderful thread with wonderful information, and for the record I too used to believe I had to push the HHT as high as I could, instead I now believe that it's far more important to learn how it correlates to a particular hone.

Best regards :)
Ralfson (Dr)
 
i third that . I as ralfy says felt i had to get an amazing hht to get an amazing shave.not always the case. i find if i get a good hht of the hone with a medium to dense hair i'm good to shave. some of my best hht's have been in some respect as bart mentions to harsh on my skin..

gary
 
May I 4th that?

My first 7 months with a str8 was with very harsh edges from a c12k. A few were decent, keenness was usually good, but smooth was nowhere to be found. My first smooth edge was such shock I was instantly obsessed with having a stone that would produce that edge. I high quality, costly asagi. 'Some learning time, and I was a very happy guy. That smooth blade would barely lop a hanging hair at all. 'Didn't feel sharp against the face at all, yet left the most smooth, un-irritated skin behind. I have gotten edges from the Dressante that rival it, but very very seldom. I have some more skill refining to do.

I started honing for others (for free - just for the experience), and some complaints of not keen enough. This was almost always from newer shavers, but I want to be able to deliver that keenness when its asked for. Here's where the N12 came in.

For my own face - I agree the most keen have never delivered the best shaves. I've used the LPB & Dressante after bevel set thru water only, but usually go to the asagi for the final finish.

I did try 5 strokes N12 after the dressante, and it was pleasing and still smooth. Beyond 10 strokes and the coti smoothness is likely gone. Its a nice option when a blade is cranky.

Again gents, thank you for this thread and all your kind & generous sharing of skill & experience. Its very much appreciated.
 
On some occassions I've had edges that pass hht but only right by where I'm holding the hair in my fingers. None the less these were hht 4 or 5 in the way the hair would slice/fall away from the edge.
Not withstanding the variability of hair itself, this feedback would inveriably translate into a terrific shave inspite of the distance from my fingers. Has anyone else had this experience?
 
Deckard said:
On some occassions I've had edges that pass hht but only right by where I'm holding the hair in my fingers. None the less these were hht 4 or 5 in the way the hair would slice/fall away from the edge.
Not withstanding the variability of hair itself, this feedback would inveriably translate into a terrific shave inspite of the distance from my fingers. Has anyone else had this experience?
I haven't, but the important thing is that you can correlate your HHT results to how the blade will shave your beard. That is all that matters really. Some don't use the HHT at all, and rely only on actual,test shaving. Yet, it is an amazing time saver if one can predict how a blade will shave, based upon how it severs one separate hair. That is why I like the HHT so much. :)

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
I wish I could use the HHT. I am bald and my girlfriend and her daughters hair are so fine that a brand new Feather double edge blade has trouble passing. I have no valid hair samples to use.
 
Danricgro said:
I wish I could use the HHT. I am bald and my girlfriend and her daughters hair are so fine that a brand new Feather double edge blade has trouble passing. I have no valid hair samples to use.
Talk to Gary. Being a profesional barber, he can send you a strand of hairs that work well for HHT-ing. We were actually planning to put "calibrated" hair samples in our marketplace, at shipment cost. But the idea is not yet executed. But Gary should have some hair packs available, if I recall correctly.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
For some reason I keep imagining this parcel being mistakenly sent to the wrong person, let's say a housewife. She opens this "hair pack" and after some initial horror and screaming she is left staring at it with no shortage of confusion. What IS this? Voodoo? Some sick joke?

If she ever contacted the proper recipient, I bet she'd never believe you when you told her your intended purpose with it! You could explain it all day long to her and she would STILL think you were a total weirdo. What a hobby we have; I love it!
 
yes i have some thiker hairs from ralfy that would be great of the hone and i have some medium hair.

i can post some just contact me. I will send them packed in a plastic money bag it seems to work fine,thats what i'm using.

gary
 
Danricgro said:
I wish I could use the HHT. I am bald and my girlfriend and her daughters hair are so fine that a brand new Feather double edge blade has trouble passing. I have no valid hair samples to use.

I heard the coating on the DE blade makes it difficult to get a proper HHT. Try shaving with the feather a little bit, then try the HHT again.
 
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