hi_bud_gl said:
I don't think your negative for the sake of it. I just think you're very dogmatic in your way of thinking about sharpening.
That is of course your good right. But it does not mean every one will always agree.
hi_bud_gl said:
I'm not in the habit of judging over people.
hi_bud_gl said:
I've only tried an Escher once. It was a decent shave. I own a Nakayama, supposedly a very good one, purchased from a reputed source. I also had an Asagi of Seth on loan for a long time. Seth had compared that one to a few others and he called it a very good one. The edges were completely on par with my own Nashii Nakayama. I wouldn't say they were better of worse than the Coticules that I tested.
hi_bud_gl said:
Yes, I've seen that list. I can add about a dozen other lists of former Coticule mining companies. They all had these quality gradations. Most of them were based upon speed. The simple fact is, that in the old days, they didn't talk about setting bevels and all that stuff, but they sure used Coticules for everything above some very rough (200 grit) sandstones. Hence they needed speed. I also have partial information about the layers that the company Old Rock (it's a museum now, if you ever visit Europe you must certainly drop by the former Old Rock Atelier in Salmchateau, much information to be found there, including all the old machinery they used). Anyway Old Rock, the company, only sold "the best" under their own brand name. They had a mine of their own, but they also bought hones from other mining companies. For the Old Rock line of hones, they used: La Veinette, La Grosse Blanche and La Petite Blanche. Presumably also L'Allemande and Les Petas. The hones were not only graded by layer, but also by how they looked. But anyway; Both the "Blanche" layers display a lot of slurry dulling effect. I'm quite sure you could not like them. There goes your theory about razor quality Coticules.
hi_bud_gl said:
That, my friend, is a serious accusation and no less than a personal insult. But I'm in a indulgent mood. Most people consider me very analytical, to the point of being boring actually. In the past, I've set up several experiments, where I honed 4 razors on 4 different Coticules, an let someone else shave with them. Someone who did not know the honing history of the razors. After the assessment, that guy returned the favor, by rehoning them for me so I could make the same BLIND (yes blind, with the
B of un
Biased) assessments.
Quite frankly, I too started out believing that there ought to be significant differences between Coticule edges. The more I learned about them, the more data I collected, the more I had to admit that the differences are very minor when it comes to finishing. On each hone in the Vault I have honed 3 razors, one Unicotted Double Arrow + two randomly other razors, usually both Dilucot. They all receive full test shaves (not just popping a few sideburn hairs). My beard prep for test shaving is almost autistic: I wash my face with green tea soap from TheBodyShop, I latter with the same mixture of Palmolive and Tabac, I strop the razor on the same strop every time, I shave WTG, ATG, and then a few special strokes. I rinse with cold water, and use the same brand of Alum after each shave. I never use A/S after a test shave. Just another rinse with water. I have a little container with HHT-hairs, been using the same hairs for over 2 years.
And you have the impolite nerve to call me blinded by love?
hi_bud_gl said:
I've never been a member of a knife forum.
hi_bud_gl said:
These two methods came up, because
I needed them to get my razors where I wanted them. If I hadn't found them, I would be using my Chosera 10K to get my razors sharp enough. It's very good at that. I would then finish on a Coticule, because I always felt that they provide a very sweet finish for my skin. But I like thinkering and playing around with the ideas that sprout. One of the very first attempts I diluted the slurry, I got an amazing result. I got it once, and it haunted me till I got is again. And again. And again. That's how I arrived at Dilucot. Unicot was indeed researched by me, because I wanted a method that would make it easier for someone just starting out, and also because I often failed with the diluting strategy. It became better with experience, and still better with the updated Dilucot procedure that's described in the article.
hi_bud_gl said:
Even on the rare Coticule I encountered that could render a razor shaveready with the use of slurry, a dilution stage would still improve the outcome.
hi_bud_gl said:
That is a most revealing statement. It is not about
needing Dilucot, Sham. It's about choosing to do it that way. No one needs a Coticule, or an Escher, or a Nakayama, or a Norton, or whatever. There's always another option. You have rejected my suggestions for using Coticules. That is your good right. And then you claim to not get the desired results. That sound like a very nice self-fulfilling prophecy to me.
hi_bud_gl said:
In fact, many used them with lather on top. Called them soapstone for that. But I don't really know what barbers did and didn't do. I know pasted strops have been around for a very long time. And I know one of the more traditional ways of honing, was to hone of slurry till the edge undercuts a thin slurry really well and finish on a pasted strop. Shaves very well. But I like the finish of the stone itself better. Barbers didn't use Shaptons either, or Japanese hones, unless they were Japanese barbers of course.
hi_bud_gl said:
So now, your are calling me a liar.
I'm going to repeat that you can disagree all you want on this forum. But you will learn to keep a respectful tone. This is not SRP. All my statements on this website (and others as well for that matter)are made in total honesty. If I'm wrong, it's out of ignorance, and public corrections are made as soon as new facts shed new light on a matter.
It think that you never really tried any of these honing options we're having this discussion about. Otherwise I would have expected you to report about your experiences, something you never did. I think it is you, the guy with the large hone collection can't bear the idea that one hone could render all other hones not needed. While in fact, they're just all tools to achieve the same goal. If you have one setup, you don't need another one. Is one single Coticule the easiest setup? Let me answer that with a rhetoric question: Is a straight razor the easiest shaving tool?
hi_bud_gl said:
As written elsewhere on this forum: the preference for a certain razor, finished with a certain type of hone or paste, is a very personal affair. I can't make that choice for anyone else. I can only help people to match the outcome on the choice that I made.
That choice has not been the Escher. Too expensive.
hi_bud_gl said:
A weird sentence. Ever since you started posting on Coticule.be, I'm getting this weird feeling that you are mixing sentences of e ghost writer, with sentences of your own. Can't comment on the Norton. I've only tried it on one occasion. Hated the 4K. Felt very gritty.
hi_bud_gl said:
Well the same you, Sham. You have your ways to get on my nerve, but let's assume that you mean no harm.
Best regards,
Bart.
: ), detergent, you name it. The only thing that really works is More Water.