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Have we failed?

Yeah thats how I used to see it, rough on the boat = Crisp, face like a freshly talcum powdered babies bum = Mellow

But I feel the original idea was not that at all, all of the current Coticule layers, when used to the maximum of their potential will feel fine, these ratings refer to all of those, non of which should have you running round the bathroom trying to stick your face in the toilet because the alum block felt like acid....lol

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
It would seem to me that all these descriptors, are relative and really only meaningful to each of us in it's own way.. As "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", or "One man's meat is another man's poison..."

Could not we also say that one man's crisp is another fellow's mellow..?
 
BlacknTan said:
...Could not we also say that one man's crisp is another fellow's mellow..?
Click to expand...

Only if his name was desperate Dan! hahaha (sorry please carry on)

Of course you are right Bill, my mellow is 4 plus passes on my soft neck skin, 2 XTG and 2 ATG with NO bad reaction.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
emmanuel said:
Yes Ralfy.
The question is if a razor cut well or not.The consepts crispy and mellow is for the biscuits.
Your friend
Emmanuel
Click to expand...

As stated, brisk, engaging and mellow, were carefully chosen words, to define very minute differences between Coticule finishes. I specifically searched for words that weren't normal jargon for talking about razors, but with enough poetic content, to give the reader an indication about the meaning. The first guy that read them was Paul, and he immediately came up with elaborated definitions for these 3 words that were spot on. Those definitions are quoted in several threads on this forum, but since you're only interested in "cuts well or not", I'll spare you a link.

Bart
 
BlacknTan said:
Could not we also say that one man's crisp is another fellow's mellow..?
Click to expand...
Certainly, but it would make the whole idea of defining certain characteristics of the shave utterly meaningless. Without proper (ie universally accepted and used) definitions, we would be talking about shaving characteristics in kindergarten speak, such as "that little sucker shaves like a dream", "ubersharp because the Gestapo honed it", or "Honemeister sharp". Personally, I would prefer a full frontal lobotomy. Same result, only faster and less painful than reading such nonsense.

Paul said:
Brisk = a crispy, rejuvenating feeling that lasts for a some time. I would imagine this edge would give a tingle that would make a gentle breeze feel especially cooling and would be quite pleasant on a hot summer's day.

Engaging = This edge would be slightly crisp, but not lasting as long as a "brisk" edge. I would imagine this edge would be invigorating and refreshing, leaving a man alert and ready to take on any challenge.

Mellow = This edge would be totally smooth and devoid of any discomfort. The face would feel smooth, but it would lack the rejuvenating tingle of the other types of edges. I would imagine this giving a gentleman a very calming, almost "zen" like sensation. This type of edge would be especially desirable on a cold, windy day I'd imagine.
Click to expand...
This is the best description of the potential edges off a Coticule I have yet come across, and one that makes actual sense, because it describes the effect of the edge in terms anyone can relate to.
 
tat2Ralfy said:
Yeah thats how I used to see it, rough on the boat = Crisp, face like a freshly talcum powdered babies bum = Mellow

But I feel the original idea was not that at all, all of the current Coticule layers, when used to the maximum of their potential will feel fine, these ratings refer to all of those, non of which should have you running round the bathroom trying to stick your face in the toilet because the alum block felt like acid....lol

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
Click to expand...

I like that. rough on the boat . the old alum block. When i shave the lads with a shavette . you want to see them moan, when the alum block kicks in.

gary
 
Bart said:
emmanuel said:
Yes Ralfy.
The question is if a razor cut well or not.The consepts crispy and mellow is for the biscuits.
Your friend
Emmanuel
Click to expand...

As stated, brisk, engaging and mellow, were carefully chosen words, to define very minute differences between Coticule finishes. I specifically searched for words that weren't normal jargon for talking about razors, but with enough poetic content, to give the reader an indication about the meaning. The first guy that read them was Paul, and he immediately came up with elaborated definitions for these 3 words that were spot on. Those definitions are quoted in several threads on this forum, but since you're only interested in "cuts well or not", I'll spare you a link.

Bart
Click to expand...


Goodevening Bart
I can understund if we use these consepts to describe a coticule. But many members use them for
the shave or for the edge.I have never intention to mock neither persons nor words.I did understud what you mean <<I'll spare you a link.>>
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
My friend, this whole thread is about the razors edge, and the shave, not about the stone.
Maybe you did not understand that?

Best wishes
Ralfson (Dr)
 
BeBerlin said:
BlacknTan said:
Could not we also say that one man's crisp is another fellow's mellow..?
Click to expand...
Certainly, but it would make the whole idea of defining certain characteristics of the shave utterly meaningless. Without proper (ie universally accepted and used) definitions, we would be talking about shaving characteristics in kindergarten speak, such as "that little sucker shaves like a dream", "ubersharp because the Gestapo honed it", or "Honemeister sharp". Personally, I would prefer a full frontal lobotomy. Same result, only faster and less painful than reading such nonsense.

Paul said:
Brisk = a crispy, rejuvenating feeling that lasts for a some time. I would imagine this edge would give a tingle that would make a gentle breeze feel especially cooling and would be quite pleasant on a hot summer's day.

Engaging = This edge would be slightly crisp, but not lasting as long as a "brisk" edge. I would imagine this edge would be invigorating and refreshing, leaving a man alert and ready to take on any challenge.

Mellow = This edge would be totally smooth and devoid of any discomfort. The face would feel smooth, but it would lack the rejuvenating tingle of the other types of edges. I would imagine this giving a gentleman a very calming, almost "zen" like sensation. This type of edge would be especially desirable on a cold, windy day I'd imagine.
Click to expand...
This is the best description of the potential edges off a Coticule I have yet come across, and one that makes actual sense, because it describes the effect of the edge in terms anyone can relate to.
Click to expand...

Aah, so, Paul. Now I understand the connection between brisk and crispy, and it was indeed your doing. Now I need an easy descriptor for an irritating shave that won't offend our more erudite members. I heard the good Dr.'s description of a shave from his Charnley Forrest as "too crispy for daily use", thought it was a very good phrase but never put it together that that was part of the definition you provided for brisk. I even went to the razor dictionary to see if crispy was in that section, to no avail.
Yours truly, Denbo
 
Oh no "Crispy" is past brisk, brisk is comfortable, nice even, crispy is bordering on sore!
I am not surprised it's not in the razot dictionary though, what with people not understanding brisk mellow etc. Her it is in "real life" mind you It is from an English English one, and not an American English one Lol


6906347b.jpg


Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
tat2Ralfy said:
Oh no "Crispy" is past brisk, brisk is comfortable, nice even, crispy is bordering on sore!
I am surprised it's not in the dictionary though? That was an English English one, and not an American English one right?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
Click to expand...
The razor dictionary, Inky. Unless you're goofing on me, then 4Q. And, I'm not sure I want to spar about countries yet. Just kidding you Brit sod.

I feel exactly the same as you about "crispy" as I said in an earlier post in this thread. It hurts. Chippy edged, over-sharp, weeper producing, almost stitches kinda hurt.

Bloody regards, Denny
 
Lol my bad, I edited my post, after reading yours properly haha

Regards from your sleepy friend
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Ralfy,

Did you even read that definition? Crisp is defined as "brisk" and "fresh, invigorating"...

Best,

Paul
 
At the risk of everyone's ire (I've not used a coti yet), the attributes seem to describe the relative balance of sharp/keen vs smooth/gentle, with everyone's supposed holy grail being a good balance. The 30k shapton edge from a 'pro' was indisputably keen. One experiment w/ a micro/secondary bevel on the asagi gave that level of keenness, but if wielded with all attention to good technique, I had to admit it was also quite smooth. It seems that at some level of keenness, the finish is demanding enough that it leaves behind all those with less than perfect technique, such as myself. Anything but the lightest of touches gives carnage from the hypersharp. The super smooth may perform moderately on tests, yet allow great shaves. This may or may not be the right way to understand the finish terminology, but it seems to follow this description.

First discovery of smooth was quite an experience - most pleasant. I seem to be drifting towards engaging now.
 
pinklather said:
At the risk of everyone's ire (I've not used a coti yet), the attributes seem to describe the relative balance of sharp/keen vs smooth/gentle, with everyone's supposed holy grail being a good balance. The 30k shapton edge from a 'pro' was indisputably keen. One experiment w/ a micro/secondary bevel on the asagi gave that level of keenness, but if wielded with all attention to good technique, I had to admit it was also quite smooth. It seems that at some level of keenness, the finish is demanding enough that it leaves behind all those with less than perfect technique, such as myself. Anything but the lightest of touches gives carnage from the hypersharp. The super smooth may perform moderately on tests, yet allow great shaves. This may or may not be the right way to understand the finish terminology, but it seems to follow this description.

First discovery of smooth was quite an experience - most pleasant. I seem to be drifting towards engaging now.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is accurate. The delightful thing about a well executed coticule edge is that is very keen, yet very skin friendly. My "huh, what?" moment was when I first got my La Petite Blanche and did a Unicot edge (following the instructions precisely). It seemed like a complete failure with my initial stroke. Except... there was no hair there where my 3 days' growth had been. I completed the shave, and it was completely BBS (nothing new), but what was new was the sensation that the blade was completely dull on my face. It seemed impossible to be cut with it. And, there was just a gentle, invigorating sensation. My wife even noticed a massive difference in the way my face felt.

I had been successfully honing razors with other systems, and I've received very high compliments from many very experienced members of the straight razor community for my honing that they shaved with (Shaptons, Japanese Natural, abrasive pastes, etc.). When I was done with that shave, I thought, "if it gets any better than that, I want to see it". That very, very quickly changed to, "if it gets any better than that, I don't care."

I've tried, and own, other coticules, but for more understanding, not because I want something better.
 
Yes! My huh-what was with an asagi finish on a blade. 'Didn't feel particularly keen - yet it mowed the field closer than any edge I'd experienced. That was when I knew that 'smooth' was where it's at for my tastes. It planted a bug that relieved me of alot of $$ to have such an edge on each razor.

What I'm hearing is that with a good coti - however one obtains it - you seem to like that edge as well as the jnat, which to me is huge. It also makes even the costly cotis a bargain by comparison. This intensifies the interest in the rock. Initially, the interest was prompted by the asagi not getting along w/ the heavy sheffields. It will be interesting to compare edges when I finally get a coti.
 
Yes, my Kiita/Asagi blend left an edge that felt very similar to my coticule finishes. Very good. The appeal to me (specific to coticules) is in the ability to go from unable to shave arm hair to perfection with one stone without the need of a variety of slurry stones. :)
 
DJKELLY said:
I feel exactly the same as you about "crispy" as I said in an earlier post in this thread. It hurts. Chippy edged, over-sharp, weeper producing, almost stitches kinda hurt.
Click to expand...
Ah, the dreaded Shapton/diamond (spray|paste) effect. "Honesheister sharp" comes to mind. Mine at least.

Any road, how about renaming the forum rules to forum conventions, and adding this (and possibly some other) definitions in there. It took me some rather precise googling to find Paul's definition in the forum (one of many reasons why forums are mostly useless as knowledge bases), and that is not a good thing. Especially since I believe commonly shared definitions to be key for a sensible discussion beyond arbitrary descriptions of edges and their effects on the skin during a shave.

Glossary, anyone? :sneaky:

Regards,
Robin
 
That is a good idea, Robin. The razor dictionary could be a small part of the finished product. I had a hard time finding the original definitions also as I was pretty sure they would be in a subheading of the home page ala "Tools". Ur pal, D.
 
richmondesi said:
Ralfy,

Did you even read that definition? Crisp is defined as "brisk" and "fresh, invigorating"...

Best,

Paul
Click to expand...

(sigh) Yes I did and thats why I believed we had abandoned the word Crisp and replaced it with brisk? as stated in my earlier post, crisp is beyond brisk to me, crisp is outside of comfortable.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
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