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Help needed Chaps

tat2Ralfy

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I have a little problem that I am hoping you guys than help me with, I am currently working on my first set of custom scales, and I have to say they are looking not too shabby. not too shabby at all, a big thanks to Sir Ray for all the helpful tips in his wonderful posts.

On to my little problem, the original scales were shot, the back one had the worse case of scale rot I have ever seen, it looked like someone had dropped a hot coal on the pivot end. anyway the front scale has an inlaid logo, can any give me any tips as to how best remove it, and refit it into the olive wood?

Photo1039.jpg


Thank you Guys
Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
There are a few threads at SRP about this but from what I gathered and what I have learned (with plastic material) here are my thoughts/ideas.

First polish up the inlay while still attached to the Celluloid scales. Then cut off the rest of the scales leaving a small part with the inlay still attached. Then drop it in a glass jar of acetone filled to cover the inlay about an inch (25cm). You can get Acetone form the pharmacy (nail polish remover) but don’t buy the cheep “watered down” stuff, get the 100% Acetone.
Leave it in there for a few hours or a day or so, the Acetone will completely dissolve the celluloid and the metal inlay will settle at the bottom. Carefully remove it with plastic tweezers and rest it on a clean sheet of paper. Empty the jar and add fresh Acetone, then drop the inlay in there again to remove all residual Cellulose.

Notes:
You polish the metal inlay BEFORE dissolving the scales because you cannot polish after it is removed as it is too delicate… unless you want to polish after it in installed on the new scales.
Do not try to “flatten” or bend the inlay until it’s time to fit to the new scales.

At this point you may need to make a few decisions depending on how far you have gone with the new scales... have you finished the coating for the scales? Or is it still raw wood?
Because it is easier to “mount” the inlay to the new scales (as opposed to cutting the shape and then laying it in there) you need to use some form of glue to initially stick the inlay to the scales and then cover (encapsulate) with the final finish such as epoxy or CA… however an oil finish may cause some issues.

Best way to do it (In my Humble Opinion)
Place the inlay against the scale about where you want it to be to make sure it will lay flay and not “bow” and lift off the scale. carefully bend the inlay for a perfect “flat” fit if necessary (the bast way to "shape" the metal inlay against the scales is to use a cylindrical rod like a pen or pencil to gently "press" to the new shape... it's not perfect... it requires a little care and practice... don't over do it or the inlay will become deformed... when you are satisfied remove it.

Now place a small "pool" of your mixed epoxy (or whatever coat you are using) where you want the inlay to be, then carefully press and position the inlay down through the pool with a plastic rod or match stick and tamp down so it’s nice and flat against the scale material, then pour the rest of the finish coat on the scales and allow to cure.

You may want to work with gloves so you don’t ruin the polish on the inlay... but if all else fails, wait until it is fully cured then carefully sand down the thickness of the coat to expose the bare metal surface of the inlay then polish again like you would any vintage celluloid scale with inlay.

Hope this helps.
 
Great advice Mr. Smythe!

Now Ralfy...lets see who gets the job done first :rolleyes:
That acetone is quite agressive..put the sample in a glass jar about a hour ago and by now its really dissolving the celloid very rappidly.

Regards gents
 
Ah well you see Torben my friend, lacking any acetone and patience, I got to work before our good Sir Cedders had a chance to reply, boiling water, very sharp pointy knifes and safe cracking steadyness were all deployed, result:
Inlay is affixed to new scales as I type, just debating over CA Glue (Low build properties but glass like rock hard finish) or Devcon 5 minute epoxy (high build, smells the house out sticky messy stuff, polishes back to glass though) :thumbup:
 
Ahhh you cheated! :thumbup:
Well done Ralfy,that must have been a very delicate operation.
Let us see a picture when the project is ready..well now I`ll go and check the acetone heheh

Regards gents
 
Lord Ralfson Dr. Surgeon.

I cant wait to see the patient healthy after the transplant.
 
Okay, but my main concern is - how will you embed the inlay in the scale material, or rather - how you remove unnecessary material and in what manner? Will you follow the shape of the inlay somehow, or rather make an oval hollow and then fill it upon insertion?

kind regards,
Matt
 
Dr. Ralfy,
Of course you had to choose an advanced technique for your first set of scales, who would have guessed? LOL

There are 4 basic techniques I can think of you can use and you are aware of a couple of them. The first is the CA technique. The scales are at the final stages of finishing and the inlay is set in place with the CA glue. Then successive coats of glue are laid on the scale until the edge of the inlay is almost un-noticed.

The next method is similar, but after you have the inlay glued in place with the CA, you then pour Glaze Coat Epoxy over the scales to form the final finish. This can be purchased in craft shops and is normally used on table tops and bar tops. You could literally embed something as thick as a coin with this stuff and not feel the edge of it and the finish would look beautiful. Everything has its price however. This stuff will scratch from something as simple as a piece of paper.

Next up, two methods I use that are done before you start sanding for final finish.

First one, paint area with tempura, yellow if you have it, and lay down the inlay and mark around it. Then take a small carvers tool and dig out the area. Make sure the tools are sharp and it doesn't take to long. Fit the piece, glue it in and finish sanding, apply the final finish.

The final method I like the most is the same as above but with a more sophisticated set up. I have a special tool for my dremel that allow me to cut inlays to .001 of an inch by simply turning a dial. Again, once the inlay is set, I can finish the scale as usual.

Hope this helps,

Ray
 
This will be short as my connection only works on and off for the next few days.

Smythes advice worked perfectly.. after 5-7 hours the inlay were ready to be taken out of the jar.

But as the scales were allready made and in use...I simply glued the inlay on to the scales..not a very sophisticated way but I werent ready to try a full Dremel job as Ray would do.
But that is of less importance ..today I managed to completely wreck a nice set of Wenge(? Black dense wood with white/grey stripes)scales. The scales was my best so far, but then%(&(/%)(/% all went wrong: Drilling pivot holes..crap...holes for the wedge...crap...wedge finish...crap..pinning ..ohhh dear...arrhhhh! But I guess it will burn nicely when its set on fire hehehe.
I hate wasting a nice piece of wood!!

Regards gents...
 
torbenbp said:
..today I managed to completely wreck a nice set of Wenge(? Black dense wood with white/grey stripes)scales. The scales was my best so far, but then%(&(/%)(/% all went wrong: Drilling pivot holes..crap...holes for the wedge...crap...wedge finish...crap..pinning ..ohhh dear...arrhhhh! But I guess it will burn nicely when its set on fire hehehe.
I hate wasting a nice piece of wood!!
Click to expand...

My grandfather, who was a professional woodworker used to say about such event: "I believe I'd better shit my pants".

:) Better luck next time, Torben.

Bart.
 
Torbs, back luck buddy, :( , remember that stuff doesn't grow on trees!...lol

Ray, I took the CA/BLO route, because I have never tried it before, shit I had never even heard of using it for wood finishing until you mentioned it in your wonderful scales thread, I think it worked very well, I learnt a few things on the way (ace) and the finish is like WOW! of course its no longer a real wood like finish but with an insert to smooth in, I thought it best.

I did consider option 2, using Devcon 5 minute epoxy, I use it to finish the coils on my handmade machines, its as hard as diamonds and resists almost anything, and the finish is again oh la la! however its not easy to polish back, smells the house out, and is hard to apply in a relatively thin smooth coat.

Options 3 and 4 where the first to cross my mind, sadly I would need some serious magnifacation and I would have to make myself some micro gouges, which TBH intrests me a lot, however I dont think I have another Razor with an inlay to rescale, so that idea can sit on the back boiler for a while.

Ok heres the piccy, not a great one, but you get the idea, I will post some way better ones (hopefully) once the old girl is complete, maybe I will find the time to do a better write up in the right area too?

Thanks for all the help guys, and Ray "Of course you had to choose an advanced technique for your first set of scales, who would have guessed?" what ever are you trying to say?? Bwhahahahah

[c]
Lucky7.jpg
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Dr. Ralfson,
What the hell are you talking about, that looks great! Wonderful job. Great work with the CA and when you work with it just make one swipe at a time, with your old T-shirt and use really good ventilation.

Option 2 is ok, as Smyth says, but the only caviat is catching the epoxy at the exact hardening stage to sand it flat. If it is to soft, it will ball up. If it is to hard, you will remove more wood than epoxy forming a dip in where the two meet. Timing is really critical. So I think you made a good choice.

Toodles,

Ray
 
rayman said:
Dr. Ralfson,
What the hell are you talking about, that looks great!
Toodles,

Ray
Click to expand...

I meant the photo Hahahaha

Thank you Ray, I got a lot of good info from a very talented friend of mine :thumbup:
 
torbenbp said:
Today I managed to completely wreck a nice set of Wenge(? Black dense wood with white/grey stripes)scales. The scales was my best so far, but then%(&(/%)(/% all went wrong: Drilling pivot holes..crap...holes for the wedge...crap...wedge finish...crap..pinning ..ohhh dear...arrhhhh! But I guess it will burn nicely when its set on fire hehehe.
I hate wasting a nice piece of wood!!
quote]

Torben,

Is this what you were looking for?

Ray

Wenge1.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Ray.. I`m not sure its the same type of wood. Will post a picture when I get home today...if my internet connection works..:sneaky:

Ralfy..that is a great job! Surely it cant be your first scale job?

Regards gents
 
Thanks again, more pics to follow, and yes Torben my friend before this I have made no scales :thumbup:
 
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