hht of coticule

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
How many of you guys passing hht of coticule?. My findings after dilucot method are i can only just pass of hone with thicker chest hair after stropping same chest pops easily finer stomach hair very rearly depending on razor some do most don't or only just if i then hit the paste chr.5 for 20 laps i can pass hht on the finess hair and shaves are exallant. not saying the shaves arn't if i don't qiute get the result on hht but i can tell the differance if i do so i am a great believer the hht for me is a good indicator.Stropping defanatly improves the hht after recieving my razor from bart i no you can pass hht on fine hairs easily as the honed razor from bart does just that i had the same razor passing hht test but not as easily on fine hair the razor was and still is agreat shaver bart will vouch for that.I no some of you don't bother with this test but for those who do whats your findings and best results?
 

blade13

Member
Gary,
I could pass the HHT off 4K Norton easy. With 8K and 16K Shapton the hair was pinging. No problems there. However, off the coticule I don't bother anymore. I can barely pass the HHT coming of the slurry. There is a slight improvement with water. It works ok after stropping but not perfect. For me the proof is in the shaving. I am getting really smooth shaves with no pull whatsoever. When I look at the blade under the 150 and 300 magnification with coticule only I can see no teeth whatsoever and the bevel is highly polished. I also find the blades last longer. I am using a tiger striped coticule which I am trying to work out. I am sure I can improve my technique however I need another one so I can compare. So I ordered another one.:thumbup:
Cheers,
Ivan
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
well i have to say with loads of experimenting and patients i can pas hht more times than not i find doing more laps as the slurry thins out realy helps and literaly honing untill the slurry is totaly washed away and not before then with ultra light laps on water and a good stropping linen then latigo leather and then cow hide gets it there
 

clavichord

New Member
My progression is:
1. DMT-xf (on ebay blades);
2. CoticuleA+slurry;
3. BBW+slurry;
4. CoticuleA;
5. CoticuleB.

CoticuleB is harder than CoticuleA. At the end, after stropping[sup](*)[/sup], HHT[sup](**)[/sup] is always 100% OK. I used the same progression for two very dammaged traditional japanese razors, and only that time HHT was 50% OK on the first one (NOS) and 90% OK on the second one (at least 70 years old). I don't use pastes and my CoticuleB is always my last step before stropping and shaving.

(*) I have great results stropping on the newspaper. Coming from my CoticuleB without stropping, HHT is only 5-25% OK depending from the razor. I do about 50 laps on newspaper and at this point HHT is 100% OK. I do 50 more laps on red latigo and 50 on horsehide only because I have them.

(**) This is how I perform HHT: the hair is held between my fingers at about 3/16" from the edge, and extends for about 3/8" after the edge.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I struggle to hit the hht without stropping, coming off my coti with water I can pop off leg, chest and stomach hairs with ease, but a true hht seems a bit of a struggle, after stropping with dovo black paste on a very soft leather hanging strop, then linen then latigo, I get badger hair from my brush passing hht everytime, this suggests to me I should work more with the coti and water, maybe its the stone and as I should be getting a new one real soon (YOU KNOW IT! COME ON NO. 10 COME HOME TO POPPER!! :w00t: Sorry! :) ) i am eager to try for better results, I dont think bart has any problem with hht coming off coti/water??

Could you please elaborite on the newspaper strop? I would love to try it
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Well, what can I say?

The HHT is not a goal, of course. It's just a method to know how to proceed during a honing job. So is the TPT, a test of which we all accept that it is highly individual. I believe the same can be said for the HHT.

One thing that makes tremendous difference is the condition of the hair.
Try a freshly washed and conditioned hair, when you just left the shower and compare its HHT behavior to one you plucked of your scalp before you entered the shower. The difference will be very striking.
If you are planning to turn the HHT in a successful method for probing the edge during a honing job, then start with using the same hair in the same condition each time you perform the test. I keep repeating myself that I use hairs from a small and short (8cm) strand that I keep in a small box, just for that purpose. I traveled all the way to Berlin 3 weeks ago, for some honing demonstrations, and the only honing related object I took with me, was that small box of hairs. :)

My personal markers for the HHT are published in this article:
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currently only hosted in the wiki of StraightRazorPlace.
Those markers will be different for other people.

I have witnessed a few times how pretty inexperienced guys managed to reproduce my HHT results (with my HHT source of hairs) with the Unicot method. That makes me believe that you should be able to calibrate your markers with that method, even if you don't regularly like to use the procedure. (For reasons that completely escape me, many people remain opposed against the secondary bevel introduced by the Unicot procedure.)

One final remark I like to add, is that the first stropping of blade after honing is very important. I often see Straight razor users that strop with far too little attention for the craft it is, to really get the best from that important part of using a straight razor. The first stropping needs to bring a extremely narrow strip of steel at the very edge in alignment, that was still left erratic, regardless how excellent a honing job you might have done. The edge off a Coticule must improve considerably during that first stropping session. If not, either your stropping is sub par, or your honing was not top notch. (If you came very close, 5-10 laps on CrO will help the alignment of the edge. Yet if the honing and the stropping was excellent, this will have no effect at all - and it won't be necessary either).

Excellent stropping starts with a good strop, by the way... There are a lot of well crafted strops out there with unsuitable leather, and even worse ersatz linen. They yield mediocre results at best.

Just some random thoughts about this interesting topic,

Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i hava little pot i use my customers hair after they add a trim its a lot quiker you guys should grab some from barbers next time your there. what you said about cr i managed to pass on human hair last night and thought i'd add cro.5 and it did'nt make a noticable differance so i must of got there and the shave was fine. When i have performed the unicot method straight of the hone i pass hht with great ease realy is a good short cut and it works every time but i do like a single bevel .
 

clavichord

New Member
tat2Ralfy said:
Could you please elaborite on the newspaper strop? I would love to try it
Well, just take about 10 pages of [free!] newspaper and double them to make a sort of paddle strop. My area is 12"x5", 3/32" thick. Put it on a flat surface and start stropping. You must keep it with your fingers (or use some tape, if you prefere) on the "open" side to prevent that pages inflate with air. That's all!

I use the double bevel "technique" only for wedge (quarter hollow) blades and one layer usually is enough (three layers for those japanese traditional razors).

Coming from my CoticuleB used with plain running water, the newspaper stropping gives me 100% positive results with HHT, using long fresh hairs from my girlfriend. I can shave really comfortably after the newspaper, but - as I wrote - I have two more [real] strops and I use them for daily stropping. On the newspaper I start with "heavy" pressure ( = as if putting cold butter on the bread), and I concentrate pressure on specific areas (thirds of the blade length) for about 20 laps for each "area". After this, I strop the full blade with decreasing pressure.

I didn't know that the first stropping was so important and felt a bit unhappy for needing an "heavy" stropping after my coticules, but since results are good - and since Bart confirms that this is quite normal - I guess that I'm doing quite well.
 

maro

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
...There are a lot of well crafted strops out there with unsuitable leather, and even worse ersatz linen. They yield mediocre results at best.
Bart.
Bart,
Any hints how to recognise a suitable leather and linen?
I've bought one strop of Jemico DOVO with russian leather and canvas but have no idea how to grade it (perfect/good/suitable/unsuitable/rubbish). :)
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I'm finding stropping on my tony miller latigo then the cowhide is creating a decent fin to be able to get that hht i can see slight black markings on my latigo so it must be removing a tiny bit of steel mind you they don't half create some draw.
 

clavichord

New Member
garyhaywood said:
I'm finding stropping on my tony miller latigo then the cowhide is creating a decent fin to be able to get that hht i can see slight black markings on my latigo so it must be removing a tiny bit of steel [..]
Same here: I have both Red Latigo and Horsehide by TM and those black markings appearing on the Red Latigo.

Today I honed a Dovo stainless: a bit more work to set the bevel on this half hollow NOS blade, but refinement and polishing were an easy task. After newspaper stropping, HHT 100% OK; 50 final laps on Red latigo and 50 on horsehide before oiling [and shipping].
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
clavichord said:
garyhaywood said:
I'm finding stropping on my tony miller latigo then the cowhide is creating a decent fin to be able to get that hht i can see slight black markings on my latigo so it must be removing a tiny bit of steel [..]
Same here: I have both Red Latigo and Horsehide by TM and those black markings appearing on the Red Latigo.

Today I honed a Dovo stainless: a bit more work to set the bevel on this half hollow NOS blade, but refinement and polishing were an easy task. After newspaper stropping, HHT 100% OK; 50 final laps on Red latigo and 50 on horsehide before oiling [and shipping].
Latigo defanatly improves an edge if it has been honed well i highly recomend tonys strops they are worth the wait. if i use cro.5 my razors fly through hht but i always check them before i hit the cro by stropping if they pass realy well then i will leave as it is if i was honing ablade for some one else i would use the paste every time just to make sure.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
maro said:
Bart,
Any hints how to recognise a suitable leather and linen?
I've bought one strop of Jemico DOVO with russian leather and canvas but have no idea how to grade it (perfect/good/suitable/unsuitable/rubbish). :)
The Dovo Russian leather is an excellent strop. If it has the linen with the V-pattern, that is the best linen I have encountered so far.

As for general advice, based on my personal experience:
Don't buy a strop that shows the slightest bumpiness on the leather side. Neither do I recommend a strop that sucks the razor vacuum to its surface, nor one that doesn't offer any draw at all.
I don't like hard plastic (nylon) fabric for linen, regardless how well build the strop carrying it may be.

The best leather strop I know is this one:
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The Dovo Russian is a more than decent second.

There are many other great strops available, but there are also some highly regarded strops out there, that don't deliver the results you can and should expect from a quality strop. People who use very fine pastes and sprays might never notice that. But I do.

Best regards,
Bart.
 

maro

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
If it has the linen with the V-pattern, that is the best linen I have encountered so far.
Yes, it does have the V-pattern.

Bart said:
As for general advice, based on my personal experience:
Don't buy a strop that shows the slightest bumpiness on the leather side. Neither do I recommend a strop that sucks the razor vacuum to its surface, nor one that doesn't offer any draw at all.
I don't like hard plastic (nylon) fabric for linen, regardless how well build the strop carrying it may be.
No bumps. No nylon fabric. Suction and drawing - hard to tell as experienced no other strop so far. Nubuk-like surface but with beveled edges. 23"x2" so smaller than Old Traditional.

Thanks a lot.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
maro said:
[the Dovo Russian leather strop]

Yes, it does have the V-pattern.

No bumps. No nylon fabric. Suction and drawing - hard to tell as experienced no other strop so far. Nubuk-like surface but with beveled edges. 23"x2" so smaller than Old Traditional.
Exactly, the Dovo Russian: not an American ;) size of strop. But one of the finest out there. Just like the Old Traditional, it has a nubuc-like surface, which regulates the draw very well. The Dovo Russian uses the flesh side of the leather (check that strop on the inside, you'll see what I mean) "Russian"-style leather is typically calfskin leather tanned in birch oil, which gives the leather excellent texture for stropping.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Hi bart i would'nt mind getting one of these strops but the site is not in english can i change the sight to english if so how?
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
Hi bart i would'nt mind getting one of these strops but the site is not in english can i change the sight to english if so how?
No, only German. I have to place an order there one of these days, I you want I can arrange the purchase for you. Just drop me an e-mail.

Bart.
 

PA23-250

Well-Known Member
Bart: why don't you like nylon fabric on the linen side? Is it lack of abrasion or just the feel? I have a strop w/ it as the linen component, but I never use it after honing--I always go to my TM linen for that. (I really need to get a horsehide component for it.)

And how do you feel about really high-draw leather? Mine is a SRD Premium 3 (buffalo leather). Really heavy draw, but sort of "soft" feeling. I honed up a wedge tonight after getting a decent HHT result & off the TM linen it was popping hairs like crazy. After the buffalo leather, maybe slightly less.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I swear by tm linen , if i strop on smooth cotton, HHT not that good . so i go to linen and HHT is as good as what i get from leather. Time and time again this happens.Any leather after that horshide litigo it all works after linen.
 
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