hht of coticule

[Bart]

Bart: why don't you like nylon fabric on the linen side? Is it lack of abrasion or just the feel?

I'm not a stropping expert, although I do have my expectations about how a strop should perform. I haven't compared different strops and fabric enough to make hard claims. My technique is very much in tune with what I daily use. I'm rather loyal to my tools of choice, so it's perfectly possible that I just don't use the right kind of pressure on other strops.

With that as a disclaimer, I hated everything about the seatbelt type of canvas, when I had the chance to try it a few months ago. It feels hard and awkward to me, almost as disagreeable as running finger nails on a blackboard. The edge alignment (or whatever you want to call the improvement of a good stropping), was next to nothing, or nothing at all.

And on a completely subjective level: I like straight razor shaving because it has a typical "organic" quality to it. Certainly when you have been sharpening the razor on a Coticule. It doesn't get more organic than that, with the slurry, its scent, the character of the stone, and all that jazz. Going to a nylon strop after that just feels completely out of tune for me. But if it actually worked well, I would have no problem recognizing it for that.

And how do you feel about really high-draw leather? Mine is a SRD Premium 3 (buffalo leather). Really heavy draw, but sort of "soft" feeling. I honed up a wedge tonight after getting a decent HHT result & off the TM linen it was popping hairs like crazy. After the buffalo leather, maybe slightly less.

Don't know about that, as I have never used something like that. So far, I really preferred the draw of a "nubuck" type of strop.

Best regards,
Bart.

 

[towliff]

Hi bart i would'nt mind getting one of these strops but the site is not in english can i change the sight to english if so how?

Ive had a look that site - its pretty good. As for the german, I did a one year course in at about 9 years ago and can only remember hello/goodbye. BUT saying that, as the german language has a very similar syntax to english, so if you copy and paste the entire paragraph in the product descriptions into a free online translator (google it), you get a pretty dayamed decent translation! Also the pics on the site help the navigation

Bart: why don't you like nylon fabric on the linen side? Is it lack of abrasion or just the feel?

I'm not a stropping expert, although I do have my expectations about how a strop should perform. I haven't compared different strops and fabric enough to make hard claims. My technique is very much in tune with what I daily use. I'm rather loyal to my tools of choice, so it's perfectly possible that I just don't use the right kind of pressure on other strops.

Im not claiming to be an expert at stropping, but i received my new dovo strop today with what gary suggests, and I agree, seems to be a cotton weave (instead of linnen) side. Stropping with this in comparison to my illinois with the "nylon seatbelt" (as bart pretty much perfectly describes!) is completely different. After the dovo, the nylon illinois for a start makes a herendous sound! not soft, kind of harsh. And the feel is also much harsher, yet at the same time doesnt feel as abrasive as the dovo cotton. I am very interested in trying an actual linen strop to see the absolute difference.

 

[Paul]

Tony Miller is the only strop craftsman that I am aware of that is actually using linen for a linen component. He said it is quite difficult to source. I agree with Gary. It's incredible. The difference between my cotton Tony Miller cloth strop and this linen is appreciable. I can not recommend it highly enough. His horsehide is nice too, low draw at first that breaks in to almost a medium amount of draw... Between it and the linen, the maintenance is just incredible!

 

[Bart]

Well, I dropped Tony an e-mail, with a request for a genuine linen strop. Let's see what he can come up with. I'm sure it will be top grade.
Thanks for the advice.

Im not claiming to be an expert at stropping, but i received my new dovo strop today with what gary suggests, and I agree, seems to be a cotton weave (instead of linnen) side. Stropping with this in comparison to my illinois with the "nylon seatbelt" (as bart pretty much perfectly describes!) is completely different. After the dovo, the nylon illinois for a start makes a herendous sound! not soft, kind of harsh. And the feel is also much harsher, yet at the same time doesnt feel as abrasive as the dovo cotton. I am very interested in trying an actual linen strop to see the absolute difference.

Dovo sells two types of canvas: one is weaved regularly, and one i weaved in a V-pattern. In the store where I bought mine, they told me that the former is cotton and the latter is linen. I never really questioned that. In any case, I have seen and used both, and find the V-weave superior to the other one. The V-weaved fabric is found on the more expensive Russian Leather strops.

Best regards,
Bart.

 

[PA23-250]

I just emailed Tony about getting a horsehide component for my strop (the one w/ his linen). Can't wait to put the 2 together--should be bloody fabulous!

I think my high-draw strop would be less affected by the nylon component (compared to something w/ less draw) because the leather already has so much draw, it would compensate. Just a guess; I could be miles off. In any case, I'll be very curious to try the full monty (cue "that music..." ).

 

[garyhaywood]

Tony Miller is the only strop craftsman that I am aware of that is actually using linen for a linen component. He said it is quite difficult to source. I agree with Gary. It's incredible. The difference between my cotton Tony Miller cloth strop and this linen is appreciable. I can not recommend it highly enough. His horsehide is nice too, low draw at first that breaks in to almost a medium amount of draw... Between it and the linen, the maintenance is just incredible!

I have tm linen /litigo and tm smooth cotton/horshide.My horshide has no draw hardly.It is new.I treated it with a little neats foot oil and it now has a tiny draw. The smooth cotton is smooth ,makes a lound zipping noise,which is kind of decieveing. I have run test on both cotton/linen and right from the start the linen for what ever reason does the trick as far as hht , of the coticule. The v linen of the dovo works,not quite like the tm linen does. and the one that james has i'm carn't say , james you will have to compare. The linen is very soft, smooth what tony supply's why it works so well, i'm not sure. I wished i had it on my horse hide.

 

[PA23-250]

Another little update: I tried doing 1 of my barber's razors (unicot) & stropped first w/ the TM linen. HHT was not half bad. The razor says Sheffield steel, but does't feel a thing like my Sheffield wedge--more like a TI. It has a feel I would describe as "hard yet smooth".

Before the test shave today, out of habit, I stropped first on the nylon webbing. HHT felt a bit more muted. Test shave was not quite up to snuff (pulled going ATG on my chin & not close enough on the neck --the ultimate test of an edge for me). Wondering if the nylon had something to do with it. I am having a pretty bad "off period" doing dilucots, lately, though.

Also a question about the unicot: if you have a long/fast cutting hone, would it make sense to either make the slurry a bit lighter after applying tape or reduce the lap count a bit (say to 20)? I'm wondering if doing too much at that stage might compromise the final edge of the new bevel--making it big enough to still get rounded over by the slurry.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Also a question about the unicot: if you have a long/fast cutting hone, would it make sense to either make the slurry a bit lighter after applying tape or reduce the lap count a bit (say to 20)? I'm wondering if doing too much at that stage might compromise the final edge of the new bevel--making it big enough to still get rounded over by the slurry.

For sure, if your coti is a fast cutter you only need say 20 laps to make the secondary bevel, any more and it gets too big to refine as easily, the beauty of unicot is that such a small bevel is quick and easy to refine, the dulling effect of the slurry is based on slurry thickness, regardless of bevel size, if that slurry is too thick then the edge will dull off. remember thick slurry dulls edges

 

[PA23-250]

Ahh, that makes perfect sense. You know, when I got this stone (8x3, probably La Petite Blanche), I found I could never get the unicot just right, but I was getting decent (if not perfect) dilucot edges straight away. Maybe that's why. Now, I'm sharpening a lot of tricky blades.

 

[Bart]

Ralfy 's spot on. Don't make that slurry too thick. Especially on a "La Petite Blanche". They are fast, and notorious for massive "slurry-dulling". Very thin slurry is key on Coticules of this layer. An a "La Petite Blanche", it almost can't be too thin to make those 20 laps. If the hair is clean (as defined in the HHT-article) the razor should have no problem popping it at about 1 inch from the holding point, before any stropping. If that doesn't happen, either the bevel was not properly set, or there's some monkey wrench in the taped stages of the Unicot.

Keep posting, we'll take this to the bottom,

Bart.

 

[PA23-250]

That thin razor has a thin bevel, so I just did a dilucot over it. I added water as soon as I felt the edge "bite"--it happens really fast on this 1--10-15 strokes & it bites using just the weight of the razor. Most of the work was on water. I also did the "invisible slurry" trick. HHT was marginal, but improved off of the TM linen.

On a side note, have you ever found some razors to be more muted on HHT than others ("feeling" dull but actually shaving fine)? This is another of those "brittle" steel razors, like my TI which still won't get sharp. Unicot (even w/ barely visible slurry for the tape stage)/dilucot, nothing. Still wondering about a Norton for this thing, silly as it sounds...

My stone is fast enough that on that problem TI, I gave it half strokes (water only) w/ some pretty decent pressure (probably too much) & I could see steel just coming off the razor right into the water. Very nice thing to see on a coticule, but it didn't help the razor much...

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Mmmm you are checking it shaves arm hair before moving on with the honing aren't you? its vital that you get it as sharp as you can when you set that 1st bevel

Also try doing another say 10 or so laps once you feel that bite, its easy to confuse the edge reaching peak sharpness and the hone doing its stuff or even the slurry getting slightly dry sometimes.

 

[PA23-250]

I do & it shaves arm hair fine--the hair falls off in a nice clump.

 

[Bart]

I do & it shaves arm hair fine--the hair falls off in a nice clump.

IF you pre-dulled the edge before reaching that stage, and IF you have not done anything else with the razor (no paste, not tape, no other hone), there's no doubt you have a good bevel.

That edge "biting" thing you go by, is something I do not recognize.I'm not sure it qualifies as a marker to move on with it.

What do you mean with:the HHT was "marginal"?

As far as razor's responding different to the HTT: only within a very small margin. Les than half a point, I would estimate. Of a Coticule, I never had a decent shave with a razor that did not pass at the very least HHT-2 (splitting hairs) Again: I'm talking about the HHT as described in the article on this website.

Best regards,
Bart.

 

[garyhaywood]

Mmmm you are checking it shaves arm hair before moving on with the honing aren't you? its vital that you get it as sharp as you can when you set that 1st bevel

Also try doing another say 10 or so laps once you feel that bite, its easy to confuse the edge reaching peak sharpness and the hone doing its stuff or even the slurry getting slightly dry sometimes.

Good point ralfy i find as slurry evaporates,or thickens you will feel more bite as your honing.keeping slurry at the the right thickness or thiness helps alot .