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Honing Help Please?

Keep going my friend, so long as you are removing steel, it will get sharper. remember to add a few drops of water to keep the slurry from getting too thick. If the slurry gets too dark you may want to wash the stone and make fresh slurry (that is... if the bevel is not yet set)... Once the bevel is set (the entire edge easily clipping arm hair when held above the skin) then it's time to polish.

You may want to make fresh slurry but make it very thin (maybe 2 - 3 rubs with the slurry stone) at this stage you should reduce the pressure... only the weight of the blade. While honing, slowly thin the slurry by adding a few drops at a time (maybe every 20 or so strokes) until it's water only... at this point you should be good to go.
 
Rick,

thanks for the video footage. Nice atmosphere in the background :) .

Upon analyzing your X-stroke, there are a few things I would alter:

1. flipping of the razor.
Do not flip the razor in the air. Keep the spine in contact with the hone
Sometimes you're turning over the edge, sometimes over the spine.
But there's always the risk that you tend to start the stroke before the spine touches base. Even if that happens only a 1/16", once every 10 strokes or so, it's enough to throw a serious monkey wrench in your process.

2. spine contact.
It's related to point 1, but I'm dealing with it separately, because I think this is probably killing your honing efforts:

At 1'04" in the second video it is clear that you are already lifting the spine before you've ended the stroke. That will introduce rounding of the very edge. And it would explain why you experienced razors become duller instead of sharper.

3. pressure
In the first video, you're using what looks like very little pressure. That's perfect for finishing on water, but for all other aspects of honing on a Coticule, it's too little. Certainly for the "halfstrokes" part, (not shown in your video), you need to apply some pressure. Enough to see the slurry become darker.

In general, I think you need to reset your brain, and start with making slow but very uniform strokes, uniform in trajectory and in making perfect contact with the hone. When I was learning this, I had zero results, till I realized that honing is one of the most precision required jobs you can do. It demands the same state of mind as when doing calligraphy. I did it with the mindset of someone hastily writing a note. It turned out not to work that way.
Try not to go fast. Speed comes naturally, but right now, you need to throttle it in favor of precision.

Soon you'll wonder what you found so difficult about it.:thumbup:


Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Oh, by the way:

from the looks of the hone and the sound it makes, I would say that's a La Veinette. They are outstanding, both for bevel work and for getting excellent edges. You will -no doubt- be able to get premium results with it. The 2 remaining hones from the Vault that you inquired about are still available, but I don't think they will solve any of your problems, quite the contrary actually.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
I can vouch for that :thumbup:

Good luck, keep at it and your results can only improve

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Well, I have looked back over the videos with your observations and lo and behold you're spot on. Not that anyone doubted. What I mean is I never knew or thought I was flipping on the edge side. I will try the bit of keeping spine in touch with hone at all times.

As far as pressure goes, I had done that intentionally with no pressure and with using my finger as a guide. The reason is to ensure I wasn't adding pressure for the final stages as everyone emphasizes use no pressure, I wanted to illustrate what I was doing to make sure it was okay.

I guess I do need a video of my half honing strokes to make sure I am using enough pressure and using it properly enough though. Good to know I am okay for finishing strokes, I was worried about those. Aside from the spine contact of course. I will work on that.
 
Bart said:
Oh, by the way:

from the looks of the hone and the sound it makes, I would say that's a La Veinette. They are outstanding, both for bevel work and for getting excellent edges. You will -no doubt- be able to get premium results with it. The 2 remaining hones from the Vault that you inquired about are still available, but I don't think they will solve any of your problems, quite the contrary actually.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Click to expand...

it is combo stone yes?
 
Rick,

I haven't had a chance to view the videos (this connection I'm working on tonight isn't cut out for streaming video), but I just want to commend you for putting yourself out there like this. With your open minded attitude and willingness to listen and learn, I expect that you aren't too far away from getting good results. Keep it up, buddy :thumbup:
 
richmondesi said:
Rick,

I haven't had a chance to view the videos (this connection I'm working on tonight isn't cut out for streaming video), but I just want to commend you for putting yourself out there like this. With your open minded attitude and willingness to listen and learn, I expect that you aren't too far away from getting good results. Keep it up, buddy :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks, man.
 
Bart said:
Oh, by the way:

from the looks of the hone and the sound it makes, I would say that's a La Veinette. They are outstanding, both for bevel work and for getting excellent edges. You will -no doubt- be able to get premium results with it. The 2 remaining hones from the Vault that you inquired about are still available, but I don't think they will solve any of your problems, quite the contrary actually.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Click to expand...

That's great to hear.

I was wondering if one of the others might be a better finisher than what I have.

I will get a couple honed on this one then inquire about one of these. How long does it take to get one and what is shipping to US?

#47 is pretty skinny yes? Almost slurry stone size, just longer. I like that one. When should you put your order in? t will be a while before I am ready for one, but dont' want to miss out either.

48 looks really cool.
 
rickboone said:
it is combo stone yes?
Click to expand...

Yes it is.

rickboone said:
Okay, here's two quick vids of those half strokes.

For some reason I was nervous and kept messing up. I think knowing I will be "graded" as well as doing it standing under the kitchen light for video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1lUtFUV808

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9XvNa1KVXg
Click to expand...

Thanks, for showing. I can imagine it's making you nervous.:)
But Paul is right: it takes courage to openly share your learning curve. A lot of guys wouldn't dare to share a honing video before they were sure they looked as cool as frozen Jägermeister. B)
I salute you for making the video's. A lot of future new guys will find help in this thread. Thank you for that.:thumbup:

Some comments:
Keep the razor perpendicular with the hone, start with the heel part on the hone, make a diagonal stroke till the tip is on the hone. It's basically the same as a normal X-stroke, but only half of it.
I should make some proper videos that show the various honing strokes. In absence of that, you can look to this one, that shows the exceptional speed of a Les Latneuses on water. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjr5Kd6mTWI
First part is me doing "textbook-style" halfstrokes. Then I flip the razor and start doing a circling variation. For now, I would skip that and learn do to the normal diagonal version only. Finally, you see a series of full X-strokes.
It's a very short hone, I'm using in the video, and I was not really aiming for perfect strokes, just showing how quickly the water blackens. On your hone, it's best to keep the heel on the hone for the first quarter of the stroke or so. Only then start making the diagonal motion. This to give the heel a bit of extra attention.

Do not try to match my speed. Take it slow and precise. And most important of all. Relax and enjoy the process.:)

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Thanks for the kind words. I don't mind someone seeing my mistakes. I'd rather show what I was doing so I can properly learn rather than continue doing it the wrong way.
 
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