J.A.Henckels honing problem

[tat2Ralfy]

Quick one, not being rude gents just a little tired, ok here goes.....

We shave with the edge not the bevel, looking at a bevel wont tell you how the shave will be.

Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Bart]

You answered your own question. If Dilucot was just a matter of turning the "micro-sandblasted" look into the "polished on water" appearance, it would be easy to do. But merely wiping away the sandblasted look does not refine the very edge. We need to gain keenness as well. And keenness is not visible with optical microscopy. To illustrate this, take two razors that are both sharpened to perfection. Rub one with the edge down over a beer bottle. See if you can spot any difference under the microscope.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[DJKELLY]

I'm not going to start a question again from a cell phone. (I'm now at home) I know the bevel is two-part, i.e. the surface and the fin; and by mentioning I could see the bevel getting set under the scope, I was only referring to the initial refinement of the side of the bevel, usually highlighted with magic marker, extending all the was across and down to the edge. I was pretty sure there is no real visual marker for dilucot and wouldn't want to use it in the normal process. As for unicot, I think it is a lifesaver (consider TIs) and works virtually every time, but the elegance and mystery of dilucot is a whole different animal.

Ralphy, I'll shave with any part of the razor I want. The edge just works better. Later, Dennis

 

[wdwrx]

You answered your own question.

I did?
((jking)


I gotta think about this....
I mean, i get that you can't see the edge... and all that.... but I guess don't understand where the state of the bevel and the state of the edge itself diverge. For some reason I want to transcribe the visual effect I can see and extrapolate that down to the edge I can't see.

Anyways... don't take my questions here too seriously.... I'm perfectly content at this stage to just do it without fully understanding exactly what or why, and I wasn't worrying much about it at all anymore anyways. I do appreciate the effort though, don't get me wrong.

Cheers,
-Chris
( gotta go for Thanksgiving supper, everyone's yelling at me , I'll definately give this the thought it deserves though.)

 

[king]

As I have mild flu I did not yet start to hone razor. Also I have very small piece of Coticule that my friend borrowed to me. By the end of the week I hope I will make payment for my own coticule so I will wait for that piece. This one is really small to do some serious job.
In meantime I look forward to collect some info about this razor that I picked up from e-bay.
One of the answers was:
"I cant tell you to whole story but I believe it goes something like...someone finds a load a JA Henckels Friodor blanks (perhaps ground, perhaps not). Someone else put some crappy plastic scales on, puts them to market on Ebay, knife shops, etc...they are everywhere it seems. The one you have appears to from German guy (manyware, manyrazor)...he is a nice scaler but cant speak to his honing. I hear that a lot of these blades have issues with the spine just not well ground which makes honing real tough unless you have a ton of experience."

This last one really border me:
"I hear that a lot of these blades have issues with the spine just not well ground which makes honing real tough unless you have a ton of experience."

Which way I can inspect this (is there any real problem with spine, and could that be in conjuction with honing proces)?

 

[Guest]

Is there any particular reason why you are cross posting this to at least three forums? Especially since this is one that specialises in hones, not razors?

In a nutshell:

1. 
   [li]Every single bit of so called information about these Friodurs that I have come across is from hear-say. I was informed by three independent, but reliable, sources that someone offered various people Friodur blanks. Lots of them. One source stated several thousands. Apparently, some of these have wound up on eBay. Allegedly. As I said, it is all from hear-say.[/li]
   [li]The ones that were identified as coming from that mystic cache were round points. All of them. I own two. Whether or not their scales are "original", and whether they were re-honed or even re-ground - no-one knows. In any event, mixing your 8/8 Spanish point up with the 6/8 round points should tell you all you need to know about the quality of the answers to expect from that forum.[/li]
   [li]Publicly slandering a vendor is, well, how to put this diplomatically... let's say indicative of the overall tone of this forum. Here is my take on the situation: The vendor is extremely well respected, very well capable of honing (certainly a lot more than those slandering him in that thread), and there is absolutely nothing to worry about with respect to the quality of his work. At least I have never heard anything bad about him.[/li]
   [li]The comment about the spine is fully in line with the mindless speculations about the origin of these razors. One individual in particular has been making these claims for quite some time. Let me put it this way: Friodurs have always been popular in Germany. There are slightly more of these around here than in the US. One guy I know and trust has honed probably ten times more of them than that particular so called honemeister. His comment about the alleged spine problems? "Bollocks. That man is trying to cash in on these blades. Even a trained monkey can hone them."[/li]

If I recall correctly, we bought 15 of these blades on eBay altogether. None of them had any problems. Bart knows three of them personally. I think that should settle this discussion here and now.

Robin

 

[wdwrx]

hhhmmmmm.... I thought I was following this on a different forum

hahahha
Are you having any luck King?

You know King, there is a free honing service offered here, these guys will put a fantastic edge on it, for just the price of postage. That might give you some time for your new coti to come in.

cheers,
-Chris

 

[Paul]

I very well could be a trained monkey because I found the several that I honed to be very simple indeed...

 

[king]

BeBerlin....for smart one is enough (that's way we speak in Croatia...hope you know about this phrase).
Also I must say that I did not buy the razor directly from German guy and can not tell anything about him not positive not negative.
But let's finish this, the things are sorted out now.

 

[Woodash]

Maybe not the same guy, but if you're talking about Manny, he is a first-class guy, IMO. I bought a Friodur from him myself, and well, like I said, he is a good guy.

 

[king]

Last night I finally finished honing J.A.Henckels Friodur 7/8.
Shortly, this was my progression.

1. I set bevel with Naniwa 1k stone (there is lot of job because I want to remove angle that guy before done with adding electrical tape. He said that he tried to honing it out with 1 layer but in my oppinion there was more than one layer). It took almost 2 hours to set the bevel.

2. After bevel setting I made two different pyramid progresions. One was combination of Naniwa 3k-8k stones and other one was with Naniwa 5k-10k stones (with some additional strokes on the Naniwa 10k).

3. I made about 150 strokes on Chinese 12k.

All of this job was done few days ago before I recived my Coticule stone from ardennes-coticule.com and my Shoubudani with slurry stone from JimR.
So, last night I decide to spend some more time on newcome stones. I made some unusual honing and had hope that edge will be nice.
First I decide to done Unicot method on Coticule (of course I skip bevel setting)and after that I done final polishing on Shoubudani stone with slurry from Tomonagura (Honzan) stone.
Finally stropping on linen and lether and most important test SHAVING.
What to say after all?
The edge was fantastic, very sharp but also very, very smooth (the beard was two days old and I skip WTG pass, going straight to XTG and ATG pass). Now I am waiting for the next shave to see if the edge will deliver same quality (will it hold?).
After all I expect that will be some critics on my way of honing but it works for me especially if I take in count that this razor was in really mess when I recived it (it was not possible to shave arm hairs).

 

[BlueDun]

After all I expect that will be some critics on my way of honing but it works for me especially if I take in count that this razor was in really mess when I recived it (it was not possible to shave arm hairs).

Not from my side, and I doubt from anbody else's either. If it works for you - :thumbup:
Congrats and thanks for sharing!
And I know that these Friodurs are not the easiest to hone. But once you've got them down they are really nice shavers.
But don't give up practicing with the coti! You'll be rewarded once you got the hang of it.

Cheers
BlueDun

 

[Woodash]

And I know that these Friodurs are not the easiest to hone. But once you've got them down they are really nice shavers.

I hear this a lot, and I'm really curious as to why. Is it the hardness from the stainless (or INOX...)? I've got one that really doesn't seem too much different than other razors I have. The edge is very linear (barely any smile/nice flat point), and the blade sits almost dead flat against the hone. The geometry seems really forgiving. It may take a few more passes to remove steel, but I don't find it bad at all?

Any thoughts?
--
BTW - I go to Lausanne a lot. Are you anywhere near that neck of the woods?

 

[Bart]

And I know that these Friodurs are not the easiest to hone. But once you've got them down they are really nice shavers.

I hear this a lot, and I'm really curious as to why. Is it the hardness from the stainless (or INOX...)? I've got one that really doesn't seem too much different than other razors I have. The edge is very linear (barely any smile/nice flat point), and the blade sits almost dead flat against the hone. The geometry seems really forgiving. It may take a few more passes to remove steel, but I don't find it bad at all?

Any thoughts?

It's bollocks. I've honed many of these, they sharpen up rather easily.

Not to rain on King's parade though. Excellent work. :thumbup: You chose your own special progression to do it, but why would there be anything wrong with that? Especially when it works.
Well done,
Bart.

 

[Guest]

It's bollocks. I've honed many of these, they sharpen up rather easily.

And they shave well, too. If you ask me, they are the unsung heroes of vintage razordom. There are a lot of the 6/8 round points available for comparatively little money, and unlike export quality stuff like Dubl Ducks, they come with decent scales, too. And then there's the 7-8/8, of course - utterly lovely.

 

[king]

I also can not say that this Friodur is hard to hone. In my oppinion it is easier to hone this one than TI Silverwing LE.
In the begining I got some problems with bevel setting (because of very well known circumstances) but until than honing was really pleasure. Also I do not think that Friodur steel is very hard (no matter what it is SS) because the slurry darkeness very quick. For example when I hone TI razor it needs much more time that slurry become darker.
Now I am going to do some honing job on friends Kamisori. That one is in really bad condition (there I will use japanese natural in conjuction with nagura stones), and after that I got two more razors waiting to be honed out (bevel setting). There I will try to master out my Coticule stone.
In evry case I will report my progresion.
Also thx to all of you who give excellent advices especially to Bart who shared his knowledge of Coticule honing.

 

[Paul]

It's bollocks. I've honed many of these, they sharpen up rather easily.

And they shave well, too. If you ask me, they are the unsung heroes of vintage razordom. There are a lot of the 6/8 round points available for comparatively little money, and unlike export quality stuff like Dubl Ducks, they come with decent scales, too...

Luckily no one listens to you. Stop trying to drive the prices of the good stuff up, please

 

[danjared]

I love my Friodurs. I have two and sold my Dubl Duck (the one I got from Smythe). But I do need to replace the crappy marginally-better-than-Gold-Dollar-generic-with-poor-fit scales that came with my 8/8 Friodur.

 

[Guest]

Silence, Paul. There are far, far too many of these in the market. I would never pay more than USD 100 for any of them. Except maybe one of the 8/8 battle axes, or one with colour etching. But those are, in fact, rather rare. Unlike, say, Dubl Ducks - except their scales are nearly always broken, resulting in additional costs of repair for a bog standard razor. Glorified no-name export stuff, you know? Dovo issue.

As far as scale replacements are concerned, beauty lies, as they say, in the eyes of the beholder. Some like European elegance, other Las Vegas...

 

[Paul]

Silence, Paul. There are far, far too many of these in the market. I would never pay more than USD 100 for any of them. Except maybe one of the 8/8 battle axes, or one with colour etching. But those are, in fact, rather rare. Unlike, say, Dubl Ducks - except their scales are nearly always broken, resulting in additional costs of repair for a bog standard razor. Glorified no-name export stuff, you know? Dovo issue.

As far as scale replacements are concerned, beauty lies, as they say, in the eyes of the beholder. Some like European elegance, other Las Vegas...

If the Filarmonica nonsense tells us anything, it's that supply isn't nearly as much of a determining factor as economics lessons would have us believe when it comes to razors... Speaking of 8/8s battle axes, I gave my brother the opportunity to pick any razor from my collection (well almost, I withheld my Pumi ) and he took mine... I want one again :cry: