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kanayama strop.....the next
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- Start Date
RicTic
Well-Known Member
Instead of the Kanayama being delivered to my door today, I got a Parcelforce letter informing me I had to pick it up from the Manchester depot, or wait until after Christmas!!!
No prizes for guessing which of those two options I chose.
Unfortunately, I had to pay the UK Border Agency a £13.50 clearance fee and a VAT charge of £26.22.
Totalling a ridiculous...£40.22!!! (47EUR/$61)
Not fucking happy!
Anyone else had to pay this shit?
No prizes for guessing which of those two options I chose.
Unfortunately, I had to pay the UK Border Agency a £13.50 clearance fee and a VAT charge of £26.22.
Totalling a ridiculous...£40.22!!! (47EUR/$61)
Not fucking happy!
Anyone else had to pay this shit?
G
Guest
Sir receiving the mine i paid 3 euros just for custom clearance due to Japan is out of european
comunity.Are you agree that your country is special?
Merry Christmas
Emmanuel
comunity.Are you agree that your country is special?
Merry Christmas
Emmanuel
RicTic
Well-Known Member
Well, there's no denying the quality of this strop. It looks and feels to the touch...incredible.
I'm sure I'll come up with some better superlatives later.
Not shaved off it yet. That honour will be early tomorrow morning.
I'm sure I'll have forgiven Her Majesty's Customs by then.
I'm sure I'll come up with some better superlatives later.
Not shaved off it yet. That honour will be early tomorrow morning.
I'm sure I'll have forgiven Her Majesty's Customs by then.
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
RicTic said:Well, there's no denying the quality of this strop. It looks and feels to the touch...incredible.
I'm sure I'll come up with some better superlatives later.
Not shaved off it yet. That honour will be early tomorrow morning.
I'm sure I'll have forgiven Her Majesty's Customs by then.
i got jimr to send it with out a value , this avoided customs tax , other wise it makes the strop a pritty expensive one.
gary
RicTic
Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:RicTic said:Well, there's no denying the quality of this strop. It looks and feels to the touch...incredible.
I'm sure I'll come up with some better superlatives later.
Not shaved off it yet. That honour will be early tomorrow morning.
I'm sure I'll have forgiven Her Majesty's Customs by then.
i got jimr to send it with out a value , this avoided customs tax , other wise it makes the strop a pritty expensive one.
gary
...now yer tell me!
At least my experience is here as a cautionary tale for others to note.
Couldn't be happier with the strop btw. I don't have any issues with the canvas despite what I've read here.
Yes, it's stiff and yes I was a bit hesitant to use it at first, but it felt OK to me. Certainly non of that vibration others have reported.
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
if you buy any thing from over seaas you will pay taxes. unless the item is under 15 $. i never felt any vibration
Bart
Well-Known Member
Today the Kanayama strop arrived, after being stored at Belgian Customs for the entire duration of the Christmas and New Year period. I guess they were all partying, at Customs...
Anyway, the strop finally received destination. I had only time to play with it for an hour, in between working shifts. Yet I believe I've already solved the mysterious problem with the fabric.
Jim provided 3 fabric strops: 2 identical ones, which are from the type of fabric everyone else receives, and 1 other with the same color, pattern and texture, most likely the same type of fiber, yet about 10mm smaller in width and [italic]considerably suppler[/italic].
Jim explained to me that, until several years ago, all Kanayama strops were delivered with a linen of that suppleness. But sadly, the industry does not make these straps for the mere purpose of stropping, and the supplier ceased production of that type of strap material.
Mr. Kanoyama searched for an alternative and found the current linen, which has the same texture and fiber, but indeed is stiffer than the old material. His tests revealed no disadvantages, and ever since, Kanayama strops are equipped with this stiffer linen. Nonetheless, several of our members have expressed a certain disappointment with its performance. The most plausible explanation is that this linen serves perfect for the typical task of pre-stropping, where the focus lies on cleaning the edge from whatever might have (microscopically) gunked up at the edge during and after the previous shave, and to prepare it for the leather strop. However, Coticule users also rely on their linen strops for a first-time conditioning of the edge, immediately after honing. And it seems that the stiff Kanayama linen leaves something to be desired in that field.
Jim brought this to the attention of Mr. Kanoyama, and being the true craftsman that he is, the man listened to our concerns. He revealed to Jim what I've written above about the change of supply. (Jim, if you're reading along and there are inaccuracies in my explanation, please feel free to correct me). But Mr. Kanoyama did not only that. He contacted his supplier and inquired about a more supple linen. That's where the third sample comes from. Unfortunately, it is smaller than the width of the leather component(s), and therefor not really suitable. If Kanayama wants to order the more supple linen at the desired width, they'd have to purchase an entire production run. For a small scale stropmaker, that is obviously not feasible.
Upon arrival, I was eager to compare both types of linen. Upon balancing the stiff linen on my extended index finger the far ends would only drop a small distance below the level of the middle part resting on my finger. But while performing the same test with the supple linen, it made a nice small bend around my finger, with both ends hanging down vertically. That's a big difference.
I took a couple of well sharpened razors and run them 50 strokes over a Coticule with water on top. That is enough to place the typical demands upon a linen strop. I relied on the trusted HHT to measure pre and post linen improvement. The supple linen was completely on par with my Tony Miller genuine linen: a clear step up of 1 point on the HHT-scale. And indeed, the stiff linen did nothing. I tried pressure, but wasn't convinced. I tried torque-ing the edge into the fabric. That decreased the HHT . The difference was very clear.
After those quick trials I went to work with one of the stiff samples. I folded the fabric and rolled it between my thumb and index fingers (like one would roll a cigarette), working my way up and down the entire strap. I repeated this several times on both sides. I also did some lateral bending and rolling. The strop started to loosen up a bit. Then I started pulling it over the rounded edge of our kitchen table, pulling hard, making as sharp an angle as the table allowed. Finally, and this made a huge difference, I placed the fixture of the strop between my upper leg and the side of the table, securing it in place. The rest of the strop was laying on the table. Then I folded it almost entirely back, leaving only a couple cm on the table and I pressed with my flat hand on the fold. The fold was immediately behind the fleshy part of my thumb (I don't know the English word for that part of the hand). Then while pushing down and away from me, I rolled the fold all the way to the far end. I repeated this several times, at both sides of the strop. This loosened up the fabric entirely, making it even more supple than the supple sample. Finally I dragged the strop with considered pull once again over the rounded edge of the table and repeated this for a couple of times.
The strop now appeared completely flat and a supple as the leather. I loved it already.
A quick stropping test revealed full functionality. The difference was night and day, also on the kind of feedback the strop provided.
In the next few days, I'll take my time getting further acquainted with the beautiful components of this strop (there are 2 different leather sides ), and I 'll write a more extensive review.
If my explanation for softening isn't quite clear, I'm prepared to make a video when I give the second sample a similar treatment, but first I want to thoroughly compare the performance differences between the linen in original condition and in loosened condition.
For now, I'll end this post with another small issue I noticed. It doesn't influence the performance, but the Cordovan leather appears to be very waxy. As such, it leaves a small bit of oily residue on the edge, and this does influence the reading of a HHT. Probably this effect will vanish once the strop has been used for a while, but right now cleaning the edge with a bit of alcohol improves the HHT-readings significantly.
My sincerest thanks to Jim, for bearing with us,for relaying our concerns to Mr. Kanoyama, and for providing the 2 sample straps.
My apologies for this hastily written first test results.
Bart.
Anyway, the strop finally received destination. I had only time to play with it for an hour, in between working shifts. Yet I believe I've already solved the mysterious problem with the fabric.
Jim provided 3 fabric strops: 2 identical ones, which are from the type of fabric everyone else receives, and 1 other with the same color, pattern and texture, most likely the same type of fiber, yet about 10mm smaller in width and [italic]considerably suppler[/italic].
Jim explained to me that, until several years ago, all Kanayama strops were delivered with a linen of that suppleness. But sadly, the industry does not make these straps for the mere purpose of stropping, and the supplier ceased production of that type of strap material.
Mr. Kanoyama searched for an alternative and found the current linen, which has the same texture and fiber, but indeed is stiffer than the old material. His tests revealed no disadvantages, and ever since, Kanayama strops are equipped with this stiffer linen. Nonetheless, several of our members have expressed a certain disappointment with its performance. The most plausible explanation is that this linen serves perfect for the typical task of pre-stropping, where the focus lies on cleaning the edge from whatever might have (microscopically) gunked up at the edge during and after the previous shave, and to prepare it for the leather strop. However, Coticule users also rely on their linen strops for a first-time conditioning of the edge, immediately after honing. And it seems that the stiff Kanayama linen leaves something to be desired in that field.
Jim brought this to the attention of Mr. Kanoyama, and being the true craftsman that he is, the man listened to our concerns. He revealed to Jim what I've written above about the change of supply. (Jim, if you're reading along and there are inaccuracies in my explanation, please feel free to correct me). But Mr. Kanoyama did not only that. He contacted his supplier and inquired about a more supple linen. That's where the third sample comes from. Unfortunately, it is smaller than the width of the leather component(s), and therefor not really suitable. If Kanayama wants to order the more supple linen at the desired width, they'd have to purchase an entire production run. For a small scale stropmaker, that is obviously not feasible.
Upon arrival, I was eager to compare both types of linen. Upon balancing the stiff linen on my extended index finger the far ends would only drop a small distance below the level of the middle part resting on my finger. But while performing the same test with the supple linen, it made a nice small bend around my finger, with both ends hanging down vertically. That's a big difference.
I took a couple of well sharpened razors and run them 50 strokes over a Coticule with water on top. That is enough to place the typical demands upon a linen strop. I relied on the trusted HHT to measure pre and post linen improvement. The supple linen was completely on par with my Tony Miller genuine linen: a clear step up of 1 point on the HHT-scale. And indeed, the stiff linen did nothing. I tried pressure, but wasn't convinced. I tried torque-ing the edge into the fabric. That decreased the HHT
. The difference was very clear.After those quick trials I went to work with one of the stiff samples. I folded the fabric and rolled it between my thumb and index fingers (like one would roll a cigarette), working my way up and down the entire strap. I repeated this several times on both sides. I also did some lateral bending and rolling. The strop started to loosen up a bit. Then I started pulling it over the rounded edge of our kitchen table, pulling hard, making as sharp an angle as the table allowed. Finally, and this made a huge difference, I placed the fixture of the strop between my upper leg and the side of the table, securing it in place. The rest of the strop was laying on the table. Then I folded it almost entirely back, leaving only a couple cm on the table and I pressed with my flat hand on the fold. The fold was immediately behind the fleshy part of my thumb (I don't know the English word for that part of the hand). Then while pushing down and away from me, I rolled the fold all the way to the far end. I repeated this several times, at both sides of the strop. This loosened up the fabric entirely, making it even more supple than the supple sample. Finally I dragged the strop with considered pull once again over the rounded edge of the table and repeated this for a couple of times.
The strop now appeared completely flat and a supple as the leather. I loved it already.
A quick stropping test revealed full functionality. The difference was night and day, also on the kind of feedback the strop provided.
In the next few days, I'll take my time getting further acquainted with the beautiful components of this strop (there are 2 different leather sides
), and I 'll write a more extensive review.If my explanation for softening isn't quite clear, I'm prepared to make a video when I give the second sample a similar treatment, but first I want to thoroughly compare the performance differences between the linen in original condition and in loosened condition.
For now, I'll end this post with another small issue I noticed. It doesn't influence the performance, but the Cordovan leather appears to be very waxy. As such, it leaves a small bit of oily residue on the edge, and this does influence the reading of a HHT. Probably this effect will vanish once the strop has been used for a while, but right now cleaning the edge with a bit of alcohol improves the HHT-readings significantly.
My sincerest thanks to Jim, for bearing with us,for relaying our concerns to Mr. Kanoyama, and for providing the 2 sample straps.
My apologies for this hastily written first test results.
Bart.
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
I look forward to the reveiw. I will take my linen to work tomorrow and try and loosen it up.As for the cordaven , when new it seemed plasticy to me . With use it does bed in. I somtimes wonderd if after the cordaven i lost my hht. I'd use another strop. My livi loom or paddle and the hht would bounce back. Other times it seems ok.Bart how did you rate your dovo linen compared to TM linen. Would you say one is better than the other or about the same?
Gary
Gary
wdwrx
Well-Known Member
well, i think you should!tat2Ralfy said:
Nice write up Bart,
In all honesty I haven't used my Kanayama linen at all since I got the one from Torolf. Every now and again i look at it and think I should, but I just can be bothered. Maybe after yours and Urmas' treatment i will.
DJKELLY
Well-Known Member
Very crafty, Bart. I know how Chris feels about his Kanayama. I was very discouraged and didn't want to ruin it with homemade fixes. I would have probably done the sandpaper treatment and now I am glad I didn't. My Dovo is my workhorse linen, so much so I have a backup. I will happily loosen up the Kanayama and am glad to see JimR cares so much to get this right. Good for you Jim. Now if the frickin' post will send me one from Norway.
Cheers Bart, and thanks for yet another breakthrough, or so it seems. Denny
Cheers Bart, and thanks for yet another breakthrough, or so it seems. Denny
Bart
Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
The difference between the stiff Kanayama and the loosened one, couldn't be bigger. The loosened one is going to be very hard to beat, because it's also thick. And as such, it provides an almost leather-like suppleness, that you won't easily find on another linen. Except for Dovo, because they have been smart enough to loop their leather and linen together. Hence their linen is always backed by leather, giving it a great feel. The Kanayama has that perfect feel without the need for leather, because of its thickness. At the same time, that thickness gives it also a slight cushion effect, that I still miss on my trusted Tony Miller Genuine linen. The untreated side of Tony Miller feels, in a way, "harder" than the Kanayama. Perhaps "coarser" is a better word. I could never quite get used to it and solved it with a treatment of sidewalk chalk. It's basically the same effect as Dovo white dressing. It clogs the fabric and mellows the strop. The Kanayama won't need it. I loved stropping on the loosened fabric as much as I find the stiff one awkward.
If you lost you HHT off the Kanayama leather in the beginning, I have no doubt that it was caused by the wax of the leather getting on the edge. I checked under the scope. It's very obvious. My Old Traditional never did it, but that type of leather has almost no waxy or oily feel. Next time you have that problem witht he Kanayama, just clean the edge with a bit of alcohol. The HHT will we right there, where you expect it.
Kind regards,
Bart.
G
Guest
Bart i am sure that the oiled strop effectives the hht test.I dont believe that change the keednes and the save quality. I know something important that the old Greek did. To keep soft
their strops they was puting castor oil but always by the back side never on stroping surface.
In the same time i am wating to ID the coticules that already posted.
Thaks
Emmanuel
their strops they was puting castor oil but always by the back side never on stroping surface.
In the same time i am wating to ID the coticules that already posted.
Thaks
Emmanuel
Bart
Well-Known Member
emmanuel said:
If you mean that the oiled strop affects the HHT, then we agree.
If you means that the oiled strop makes the HHT more effective, then I'm afraid we disagree.
But in any case, we agree that it doesn't affect the keenness and the shave quality.
Amicalement,
Bart.
Bart
Well-Known Member
An update:
This morning, I noticed that overnight the fabric strop regained some of it's stiffness. Not much, I'd say, by rough estimation: 15% of the suppleness I gained was lost. It was still functional, but the difference was enough to make me wonder if I didn't overstate yesterday's praises. I rolled it on the table again, and it quickly regained it's suppleness.
A suppleness that it definitely requires for me to enjoy using it. (Did I ever say that I find the joy of stropping one of the important aspects of the whole process? )
I'll see tomorrow. If this keeps happening, my next treatment will be to soak it in laundry softener, let it dry, and repeat the strop massaging.
Kind regards,
Bart.
This morning, I noticed that overnight the fabric strop regained some of it's stiffness. Not much, I'd say, by rough estimation: 15% of the suppleness I gained was lost. It was still functional, but the difference was enough to make me wonder if I didn't overstate yesterday's praises. I rolled it on the table again, and it quickly regained it's suppleness.
A suppleness that it definitely requires for me to enjoy using it. (Did I ever say that I find the joy of stropping one of the important aspects of the whole process?
)I'll see tomorrow. If this keeps happening, my next treatment will be to soak it in laundry softener, let it dry, and repeat the strop massaging.
Kind regards,
Bart.