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La Nouvelle Veine

La Nouvelle Veine, at 80X, shearing light source:


Not that you'd notice much difference with other Coticules, though.

If you need to do a lot of work with water (several sets of halfstrokes and then 100+ X-strokes), I recommend doing less of that, and more on thin slurry.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Bart said:
If you need to do a lot of work with water (several sets of halfstrokes and then 100+ X-strokes), I recommend doing less of that, and more on thin slurry.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, Bart. I haven't figured out all there is to know on my La Nouvelle Veine. To this point, I've only really used it for finishing and Unicot. Once I got my Les Lat, I started concentrating on that stone because it was easier for me to work with, and I've got a fairly decent handle on it.

I don't know if I necessarily need to do a lot of work with water, that's just what I've tried a few times with OK results. It seems like I read some tips in the past that led me to work with my hone using those steps, but it's really the only thing I've tried. I'll have to try things out again to see if they make any difference.
 
Disburden said:
ME: no it's hard, it doesn't even scratch if I try.
RE: Hmmm that doesnt make sense
ME: It's also very slow on water, it's a very bipolar stone
RE: Wait so it's fast on slurry and slow on water? That's impossible.

LOL:lol: :lol:
Click to expand...
:D :D
Yes, it's a stubborn myth that something can be predicted from the hardness or softness of a Coticule. I which is were, but I've collected enough opposing data to know that Coticule hardness can't serve as a marker for anything. But the myth carries on regardless. :rolleyes:

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Bart said:
La Nouvelle Veines come in 2 kinds. The most I've tested were quite fast on slurry, and dead slow on water, a bit on par with the behavior on water of some BBW's I've tested.

The problem with such a very slow surface (on water) is that it offers merely polishing, but not enough steel removal to make of for the slight deterioration that the tip of the bevel undergoes from riding the hone. Remember that we're dealing with submicron parameters, and that even the smoothest feeling honing surface still looks like a cobble stone path at that submicron level. If the tip deterioration is more than what the hone undoes, you'll have problems with keenness development. The bevel sides will polish nicely, but the edge keenness might stay on the same level, or even revert back a bit to a level where a slightly thicker bevel tip radius can cope.

It helps to play with pressure. More pressure will improve the abrasion, and not necessarily the tip deterioration as much.
Another way to success is to stay at a very thin slurry level, till the edge passes the HHT well and only then do a limited amount of laps on water, or even not at all.
Also Unicot should help. The narrow bevel offers a much better bevel abrasion / tip deterioration ratio. (That is why it works so well in the first place).

Kind regards,
Bart.
Click to expand...

I'm very interested to hear from other owners if Bart's suggestion of avoiding passes on water has proven successful. I've noticed that the HHT feedback was better on light slurry too...I didn't think about stopping there since we all thing that passes on clean water is the way to go for final polishing..
 
I've taken a little break from honing for a while, and now I want to go back and try to figure out my La Nouvelle Veine. I have found that doing more work on a very thin slurry, and then the normal number of X strokes at the end of Dilucot has given me some better results. I've never tried Bart's suggestion of only doing a limited number of laps on just water, or none at all, but I'm no longer doing the 100-150 X strokes on plain water like I automatically used to do.

My recent problem is that I have been trying it out on one of those "Good razors to avoid" (http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/676.html), that has a turned up tip, and I haven't really tried doing a rolling stroke before (something I need to learn and practice). Everything from the heel to somewhere between the middle and the toe is wonderful, but the toe barely shaves arm hair. Even though I know it's not ready, I still shaved with it today, and it's way smoother than any of my other razors honed on my Les Lats or bought elsewhere. Of course, I had to touch up on the edges of my face with another blade because the toe isn't ready, but I really liked the results on the rest of my face, which had been feeling pretty raw from the last couple of previous shaves.

Right now, I'm trying to take a step back, slowing down, and doing a better job of managing my slurry. If I can consistently get the sames results on the entire edge from my La Nouvelle Veine as I did from more than half of the edge I've been working on, my face and neck will be much happier!
 
Just knowing what is possible is more than half the battle, especially if you are responsible for the fine edge on most of the razor. Denny
 
any other comments on this? I'd love to hear from people using Bart's suggestion of finishing with light slurry only
 
Last night I worked on another razor (no warp, only the tiniest turned up point) on my La Nouvelle Veine, so I didn't have to worry about a rolling stroke or anything like that.

Dilution process as normal, with more work at the end on a thin slurry. Never did a partial or full rinse. Instead, at the part where you normally splash on some water, I just went into X strokes. Never cleaned it off, never went to plain water. This seemed to work out pretty good for me, though this was only one test.
 
Well I just shaved with my 6/8 full hollow sheffield razor and got a really nice shave. I honed it up last night on my la nouvelle veine, but I stopped on light slurry instead of water. The razor was responding well to my HHT test at that stage, so I figured, eh why not, it's popping hair. It will be interesting to see if it still shaves well the next time around.
 
I tried that problem razor on my La Nouvelle Veine again last night, this time after doing circles on it (due to the recent discussion on circles). Again, more work on thinner slurry, and I finished on X strokes with a very thin slurry instead of plain water. The shave was still pretty darn good. That razor will go into the back of my rotation.
 
Good to hear! I actually did a few circles each set as well. I find it helps in correcting or addressing areas that might not have received very good attention during the quick half stroke passes. I'm expecting a new slurry stone today, I wonder if it will make a difference.
 
Hey guys,

Just honed up another razor using my Nouvelle Veine. (Fili DT #13) After doing a bunch of passes on light slurry, the razor was giving me a decent HHT feedback right of the stone so I decided that it was probably good enough and went to the strop. After about 80 on the linen and 100 on leather, the razor was giving a nice HHT-4. The shave however was not all that great. I got quite a bit of pulling and the razor felt a little rough. It's a really weird stone...if you go down to water only and do 100 x strokes, the razor looses all HHT response. That's what I did the first time and since I wasn't getting any HHT I went back to very light slurry and got it back to what I thought was a decent place. What is your experience with the stone? Does it have a tendency to give poor HHT results or?


thanks,

JF
 
Let me begin by saying I'm fairly new at this, and I'm not as experienced, etc.

When I first got my La Nouvelle Veine, I was excited to learn how to do Dilucot, but I was never able to really get it keen enough for shaving. I don't really have any long or thick hair to use for HHT, but I can usually get a fairly good idea with arm or leg hair. This was all a little frustrating to me, but I figured the only thing wrong was that I didn't have the experience. Switching to Unicot after a Dilucot seemed to work great practically every time. This always gave me a very smooth feeling, compared to other shave ready razors I had bought elsewhere. I don't know if doing the 100+ X strokes had anything to do with this, but I seem to recall reading someone doing that somewhere, and so I adopted it, but like I said, I never really got great results with Dilucot alone.

Next, I got a Les Latneuses. This was a whole lot easier for me to learn and use. I was able to reach a better keenness level a whole lot easier. I pretty much followed the Dilucot instructions by the book. With my particular hone and razors (mostly various Solingen's), I was getting what I thought were pretty good results.

Then, I wanted to go back to the La Nouvelle Veine, and see what I could do with it. I still have a little problem getting it as keen as it needs to be, so I often do a quick Dilucot on my Les Latneuses, and then switch over and do another Dilucot on the La Nouvelle Veine. It's probably overkill, but for me (my skill level, hones, razors, etc), it seems to work. Adding circles seems to help me (again, that's just me).

It seems like I get really good results if the edge coming off the Les Latneuses is really good (HHT-4 or so) and usable after stropping, or if the blade was pretty good to begin with and I skip the Les Latneuses. If I then go to the La Nouvelle Veine, I can keep that same HHT level. If the edge was poor to start with before I go to the La Nouvelle Veine, then I can't get it to improve all that much (again, that's just me). This is all with finishing on a very light slurry on the La Nouvelle Veine, rather than going to pure water. I do add a drop of water now and then when I do my 50 X strokes or so, but there's still a little slurry left.

I don't know if that helps, but at least for me, I can't make a huge improvement on a edge with my La Nouvelle Veine, and I don't know if doing a bunch of X strokes on plain water drops the HHT value, but think that might be the case.
 
Thanks for your reply! I love how the stone feels, but it's certainly frustrating to get decent results of light slurry, but to loose that completely on water only. The edge coming off light slurry is also very strange, it gives a nice HHT, but it feels a little grippy and pulls quite a bit while shaving...
 
I think I know what you mean by it being a little grippy.

My last four shaves for sure have been finished off with blades that had a final Dilucut on my La Nouvelle Veine. I usually use one a day, then put it in the back of my rotation, so I don't remember for sure what was behind that. The first two were the same razor, however, a Boker French point. I'm not sure of the grind, but it's somewhere between a wedge and hollow ground, probably close to 3/4 ground if I remember correctly. That one shaves like a dream! No tugging whatsover, super smooth. Next, was a Sheffield labeled "Extra Hollow Ground". That one pulled only a very tiny bit in certain spots on my neck going against the grain, but still really smooth. Today was a Solingen, probably hollow ground (rather than extra hollow). I did that one in a hurry last night, and didn't really try an HHT. That one felt a little grippy to me. I probably need to work on that one a bit more, though, but it does tug a little, despite shaving off arm and leg hair pretty good.

I don't know if the grind has anything to do with it, but that Boker is probably my favorite razor to shave with. I have spent more time working on it, though. I don't have a picture of it handy, but it's definitely less hollow than the other two I mentioned, but not a wedge. I also believe it's sharper than the others, so maybe that's why it doesn't feel grippy like the others.
 
I see. I tried a few passes with water today during my lunch time. The razor seems to still pass the HHT. I didn't get a chance to do a whole lot of testing on it. I'll work on it a bit more again tonight before I test it again tomorrow. My skin is a little raw from this morning's shave. THe -23 degrees celcius outside probably does not help either.
 
Just honed up this razor using ma nouvelle veine. The razor was wicked smooth! After shaving wit this, I believe my La Dressante might have to go! Here's what I did...I raised a fairly heavy slurry and made sure that the razor was shaving hair all along the edge. I then cleaned the stone and raised a lighter slurry. After that I did about 30 half strokes followed by some circles until I was down to water.I cleaned the stone and did about 80 half strokes followed by 70 x-strokes. BTW, the razor is awesome! Got it before christmas and never really got a chance to dial it in properly. It's a full Hollow W&B restored by Max with nice Horn scales by Max as well. I incuded two post-shave pictures.


Cheers,

JF
 
Nice to hear! Sounds like you're doing more work than me on the thin slurry, and finishing. I'll have to give that a try. I had a very nice shave today with a semi hollow, similar to that Boker I mentioned. None of that grippy feeling. Maybe I just have better luck on those than full hollows.
 
I have a La Nouvelle Veine (identified by Bart), but while it's fast with slurry, it also seems to be quite fast on water alone. :confused:
As I understand, these Coticules are meant to be extremely slow on water, but mine will turn clear water, dark, in short time.
Is it possible there is another type of La Nouvelle Veine, or could it be a different layer entirely?

Edit: First two pics in this thread here...http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/1214.html
 
RicTic said:
I have a La Nouvelle Veine (identified by Bart), but while it's fast with slurry, it also seems to be quite fast on water alone. :confused:
As I understand, these Coticules are meant to be extremely slow on water, but mine will turn clear water, dark, in short time.
Is it possible there is another type of La Nouvelle Veine, or could it be a different layer entirely?

Edit: First two pics in this thread here...http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/1214.html
Click to expand...

You said that it's much paler in real life. Could you post some better pictures of it (i.e. with better lighting)? I'm wondering if it's actually from the slow side of Les Latneuses layer given your description of speed.

Do note that there are two types of La Nouvelle Veine cuts. See this. I think the other side is slow both on water and slurry, though.
 
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