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N°54 and n°52 - Les Latneuses

kinematic said:
I never said a marketing ploy is bad but if you're gonna do it at least be honest about it. If Ardennes can make some extra money this way I'm happy for them. To me a certain quality still doesn't justify a higher price tag so I won't be buying them.
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:huh:

he said that he's going to test hones and give a certain few of them a designation identifying them as having certain characteristics. These stones will be sold at a bit of a premium. How is that dishonest... because he, and I for that matter, see it as a value added service and of additional peace of mind just because he doesn't label that a "marketing ploy"? You don't want to buy it, that's fine. However, calling Bart, a friend and a first rate gentleman, dishonest is not (fine that is). That's really out of line, Sir.
 
I'm sure there have been lots of people who bought a Coticule directly from Ardennes or a reseller who by chance recieved a stone wich meets certain characteristics described here wether it be looks, speed or finesse. They didn't pay extra for those characteristics, why should you?
 
kinematic said:
I'm sure there have been lots of people who bought a Coticule directly from Ardennes or a reseller who by chance recieved a stone wich meets certain characteristics described here wether it be looks, speed or finesse. They didn't pay extra for those characteristics, why should you?
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You answered that question for yourself when you said they did it by "chance". Eliminating "chance" from the equation is EXACTLY what this is about ;)
 
jonnyangel said:
Are either of these available? I NEED a Les Latneuses!
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Unfortunately, no. We were both too late. Congrats to the new owners :thumbup:
 
kinematic said:
I'm sure there have been lots of people who bought a Coticule directly from Ardennes or a reseller who by chance recieved a stone wich meets certain characteristics described here wether it be looks, speed or finesse. They didn't pay extra for those characteristics, why should you?
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Well when you buy a hone form Ardennes or a reseller for one you don’t get to see a photo of the stone before you purchase it. And though a reseller may “razor test” the hone before selling to you, I doubt Ardennes will. But though you may not know it I am sure the reseller will put his markup on the stone before selling to you, and again, if you are lucky, you may get to see a photo of the stone before you have it in hand.

But what if you are a collector who wants a special stone with some special characteristic (all Coticules are different), if the reseller does not have it in stock he will have to order from the mine, and someone at the mine will have to go find it, that will cost someone extra resources. Sure, Ardennes or the reseller will do it for you out of the goodness of his hart (good for you good for the buyer… nothing wrong with that). But what happens when the demand for special attention to find these special stones increase?

Someone… somewhere will have to spend the much resources to sort the stones.
 
I will take back up on #54 if the deal falls through.

That is what happens when one succumbs to sleep.:cry:

Evritt
 
kinematic:->

You also need to take into account that this site leans heavily on coticule research and development of new and alternative methods for their use. It is in that spirit that the membership as well as the owner strive to define parameters for the use of a stone. It is imperative that certain information is known before hand about a stone. In this case, the stones in the vault. Although being made available by the quarry to Bart for testing and classification, they are in turn made available to the general membership. Those stones as far as I have seen by way of continued posts from the new owners, have been used further in a continued r&d effort. Albeit out of the controlled environment at Bart's, the stones being used in an "end user" environment provide real world feedback as to performance etc. Having a stone that has been rated, certified, tested in a controlled setting, provides a valuable baseline for further learning and sets a level of expectation. In this vein one should expect to pay a little more. Considering the vault as an extension of the r&d process as well as a vehicle for further learning to me is a valuable resource, not just another place to buy a hone.
Humbly,
stew
 
well i'm happy with my purchase. and to be fair its worked out real cheap as i have two coticules for the price of one. I have got my third and last one from the vault. i would rather buy one tested by bart as its piece of mind and nice to get first hand opinion.Also people tend to forget bart must put hours into this every night, it must be like a full time job. I apreciate what he does and his research has helped us all get shave ready edge of just a coticule. When i had my first coticule i found the edges were not shavable.I gave up on my coti. Untill recently with barts methods of sharpening that realy work for every one. i have sold my manmades and just brought my self more coticules, i have to admit i would like to try a escher. Have you seen how much they cost! And all they do is finish an edge , coticule does every thing you will ever need. Apart from the ovious bevel rebuilds and real damage.
 
richmondesi said:
You answered that question for yourself when you said they did it by "chance". Eliminating "chance" from the equation is EXACTLY what this is about ;)
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I wouldn't mind paying something extra because of the time it takes to search through the stock and qualify the hones, afterall...time is money. I wouldn't pay extra for a stone that's being boxed, numbered and with a description added so it can be sold as a Burton series stone. That means nothing to me simply because a coticule is a tool to me.
 
kinematic said:
I wouldn't mind paying something extra because of the time it takes to search through the stock and qualify the hones, afterall...time is money. I wouldn't pay extra for a stone that's being boxed, numbered and with a description added so it can be sold as a Burton series stone. That means nothing to me simply because a coticule is a tool to me.
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Exactly!! You're stating a personal preference, which is perfectly valid.

Having stated your preference, perhaps we can move on here. I'm sure you'll agree that not everyone here needs to think alike. Some people are fine paying for the 'extras' or perceived extras, others are not. My wife likes buying designer jeans. I think they look the same as the jeans from Target - which are many times cheaper. However, it's her spending money....she can do what she wants with it (besides, in that case she can't complain about my razor purchases :blush: ).
 
kinematic said:
I wouldn't mind paying something extra because of the time it takes to search through the stock and qualify the hones, afterall...time is money. I wouldn't pay extra for a stone that's being boxed, numbered and with a description added so it can be sold as a Burton series stone. That means nothing to me simply because a coticule is a tool to me.
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Nothing wrong with that, if you consider sorting, grading, finishing, testing, custom making a box, printing out information, issuing certificates,correlating that same information and certification, dealing with special requests, using skills that have taken countless years to perfect, in order to be able to offer a unique service as a marketing ploy, because you see no value in any of that, thats fair enough, I guess we all have our level.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Obvious sarcasm is obvious :p

Let's just agree to disagree. To you it's worth the money and to me it isn't.
 
Oh I was sincere, and theres the not so little matter of our gracious host feeling insulted by your disrespectful comment about marketing ploys, I may have overlooked your apology and explanation of a misunderstanding?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
tat2Ralfy said:
I may have overlooked your apology and explanation of a misunderstanding?
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No, you haven't overlooked anything. To me it still seems like a marketing ploy (boxing it up, numbering it, adding a description and selling it as a collectors edition). That's my opinion wich I'm entitled to. And I will say it once again, there's nothing wrong with a marketing ploy.. If the owner of this site feels insulted by an anonymous person on the internet he needs to grow a thicker skin. Visiting /b/ on 4chan might do the trick ;)
 
kinematic said:
If the owner of this site feels insulted by an anonymous person on the internet he needs to grow a thicker skin. Visiting /b/ on 4chan might do the trick ;)
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Mmmm I see you have not read this forums rules of conduct then Sir?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
I'm not going to apologize for stating my opinion. We're all adults her and if Bart (or anyone else) can't handle it it says more about him than it does about me. I will also encounter people during my life who will state an opinion I may feel is insulting to me. I'm not going to cry about it, that's life. Deal with it.
 
kinematic said:
I'm not going to apologize for stating my opinion. We're all adults her and if Bart (or anyone else) can't handle it it says more about him than it does about me. I will also encounter people during my life who will state an opinion I may feel is insulting to me. I'm not going to cry about it, that's life. Deal with it.
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Ah well you see, as true as some of what your saying may be, there is one fundamental thing that you seem to have overlooked, this is not the outside world. We are here as guests of the site owner, look at this place as a house party if you will, and as guests we are expected to behave within certain rules, one of which is to remain respectful, if your host tells you that you have insulted him, the respectful thing to do is to apologise, and try to clear up the misunderstanding. Unless of course it was your intention to insult him. In which case you may find yourself being (respectfully of course) fucked off.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
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