OK, I'm impressed.

[pinklather]

Tape to the rescue last night.

2nd blade for the day. Soligen hol. import for a US Hardware chain in the '20s. Dulicot wouldn't produce consistent hht all along the blade (I'm contemplating bevel reset). Every trick - water refresh every 15 strokes, liquid soap coating - nothing improved results. Tape and unicot finish improves only slightly. So reading that cotis respond more than other stones to stropping, and with some pressure, I gave it 160 linen, 200 horsebelly leather, and it bumped each area up an hht point or two. A splash of water on an unprepped cheek, and it felt like some of the better edges I've gotten. Full test shave within the hour.

Shave Update:
Once again, good. Smooth. But not great - not that keen. The Boker did better than the Simmons import - but the uneven-ness in hht results make me think bevel issues.

Questions/Musings:
Pressure during dilution phase: is using pressure the norm? (I'm assuming no pressure during water-only finishing stage). If it's used, do you start with medium pressure and ease up with each dilution?

I keep getting the impression some obstacle keeps the water stage from doing it's proper role - so I suspect my dilution stage.

Sound: 'Keep hearing the stone will tell me when to move on. 'Seems every experienced person says some form of this. During dilutions, it starts with a whisking sound, then gets progressively more silent. When it's quiet, I add a drop or two and start the next set. Perhaps I'm waiting too long? Maybe getting some slurry dulling before moving on?

Again, I appreciate your thoughts, Gents.

 

[Bart]

During dilution, I add water every completed set of halfstrokes at both sides. I don't stay on a particular slurry density until I can feel a change in feedback. The change in feedback gradually takes place for me throughout the entire dilution procedure.
Neither do I gradually back of on pressure. I use more or less the same pressure during all halfstrokes of an entire honing job. Only for the X-strokes on water, I change to weight-of-the-razor pressure, and eventually less than weight-of-the-razor pressure.

If Unicot doesn't give you a clear HHT-3, even on hair known to be difficult, either the razor has not a good bevel, or you used too dense a slurry for creating the secondary bevel, or you accidentally messed up the honing stroke.

Kind regards, and best of luck with the continuation,
Bart.

 

[pinklather]

Some joy, some learning (always great)

Today was the dovo inox' turn. I taped the spine so I'm not wearing the daylights out of my spines while I learn.

6 or 8 swirls of the slurry stone, and started a 17 dilution passes, varying from 20-40 strokes, circles and 1/2 strokes, alternating.

First observation: I've been stopping the dilution process when the edge gave 8+k sharpness indicators. This long dilution process gave more keenness than I've been getting before - hht 1-3 off dilution before water only finishing. The 8 k level was the normal point with other stones that it was time to move to the finisher. Not so, here. No doubt it was only water by the end of the dilution.

Fatigue would normally happen in a lengthy session, corrupting the quality of the finishing strokes. I took a break after dilution. When I went to water only, kept my rested arm up high - about parallel to the floor, and started w/ 40 light 1/2 strokes, then 6 sets of 20-30 circles (alternating direction of rotation), and x-strokes. HHT was now one 2, the rest were 3s with one 4. 200 linen, 200 horsebelly, and two hht 3s, three 4's and one 5. Immediate shave test on most coarse stubble on and under the chin & jawline was excellent. This is getting respectable.

Second Observation: Paul's totally right. 'Constant full cleaning, refreshment of water is not needed.

I would seem I'm closing in on some goodness here.

Sincere thanks again, Gents.

 

[RicTic]

You have a very methodical approach. Persistent too! With that combination I don't doubt for a minute you'll just get better at this.

Been busy myself tonight. Still struggling for a decent HHT on the LPB, but I improved on last nights results on a different razor, with a lot less effort.
I think what did the trick was time spent on more dilutions before finishing on water.

 

[pinklather]

Real success. I didn't think it would be - hht was lackluster at best - zero at the toe, a couple 3's after a very long session w/ periodic rests to avoid stroke corruption from fatigue.

16 dilutions and hht3 was had. then water only erased those gains. Remembering Gary's advice about going back to very light slurry and diluting again, I was back to hht1-3. Water only gave no change, but I was about through for the night. I stropped 200 linen, 200 horse belly and called it a night. This was a new (to me) razor, Robeson sure edge that got a clean up, bevel set (on Atoma 1200). I have a weakness for old US blades, and wanted to try my first Robeson. With lackluster honing results, I thought I wanted to know what the Robeson could do, and was willing to revert to the Asagi to do it.

Thinking I might be back on the Asagi, I didn't do normal shave prep (shower), but rubbed good lather on the face for a couple minutes before re-lathering and shave. I did this only on a part of a cheek, thinking I didn't want to wash off a face full if I went to the other stone. First strokes were good. Then better. I repeated prep on the rest of the face, and was deep into enjoyment. The razor and more importantly, the edge was excellent. 'Smooth and keen enough. Good enough I'd hand it to a noob (or more of a noob than myself) to try for a first shave. Maybe I'll see what the asagi could add, but it won't be anytime soon - it's that good.

Questions from the experience:
1) hydration during dilutions: how dry should the middle of the stone get before it's too dry and needs a drop to rehydrate. The reason for asking was Bart's description that if it gets too dry, you encounter slurry dulling. Can the stone get visibly empty of standing water in the center section from having the edge undercut the water? Is that okay? Desirable? Any other way to gage too dry?
2) Pressure: I use some during early dilutions. Should I ease up and stop using pressure as I near the end of the dilution phase?
3) When do you stop diluting? One forum member said they do when they get an hht 1. Is that a good gage? (seems quite reasonable).

Conclusions: I have some work to do on getting serious about good, repeatable hht's. I'll ask the hairdresser neighbor if she could bring home a sample of 5-10" med. thickness hair that was washed before it was cut. If hht is the coin of the realm here, I'd better get some decent currency.

Again, Gents, Thank You for your kind help.

 

[RicTic]

Conclusions: I have some work to do on getting serious about good, repeatable hht's. .

Again, Gents, Thank You for your kind help.

Despite slight improvements with the HHT on the La Petite Blanche I've come to the (possible) conclusion that the Les Latneuses hybrid side has spoiled me, somewhat.
Only one thing for it...I'm going back to basics and concentrating on improving my strokes for consistency.

 

[Paul]

Despite slight improvements with the HHT on the La Petite Blanche I've come to the (possible) conclusion that the Les Latneuses hybrid side has spoiled me, somewhat.
Only one thing for it...I'm going back to basics and concentrating on improving my strokes for consistency.

: :

What's funny: I can knock out a LPB dilucot without thinking in less than 10 minutes. Les Latneuses was a huge struggle for me. I think this goes to my point from before: it just takes time to learn and master a stone :sleep:

 

[RicTic]

Despite slight improvements with the HHT on the La Petite Blanche I've come to the (possible) conclusion that the Les Latneuses hybrid side has spoiled me, somewhat.
Only one thing for it...I'm going back to basics and concentrating on improving my strokes for consistency.

: :

What's funny: I can knock out a LPB dilucot without thinking in less than 10 minutes. Les Latneuses was a huge struggle for me. I think this goes to my point from before: it just takes time to learn and master a stone :sleep:

Point taken...


...but I still need to improve my strokes!!!

 

[danjared]

(Going a bit off-topic.)

Robeson sure edge that got a clean up, bevel set (on Atoma 1200). I have a weakness for old US blades, and wanted to try my first Robeson.

I hear you. I particularly have a soft spot for Robeson ShurEdges, especially the ones with the famous etching. They are excellent razors. What model is yours? I have one--a 6/8" round point--with faux tortoise scales (with bolsters!) and blackened and hand-hammered tang. I can't recall the model off-hand, though. I had another smaller one (also bolstered). That is the one razor I most regret parting with.

Do you have pictures of yours?

 

[pinklather]

Ohhh. You have a nice one, danjared. I'm jealous. Even a plain one in 6/8 would be heavenly. This one is humble, but really delivers the goods - like a Genco fluid steel. This is a plain jane 1503. No face etching, basic black scales w/ a nibble or two. 5/8 square point.
Looks like this one w/ plain black scales. http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Robeson_Cutlery_Co_"ShurEdge"_Square_Point_5/8

RicTic: The asagi made me deal with the quality of my stroke - which probably wasn't very good. I noticed the occasional minor departure of the spine from the stone, the role of fatique (for me), how to do a sweeping stroke and keep a consistent arc and absence of pressure without losing contact. For me it was humbling, but I think necc. to improve further. Lynn counseled to try the elbow up parallel to the floor. 'Works good, but fatiguing to do for long. Glen says to try having the length of the stone perpendicular to your hand/arm, instead of inline.

Beberlin's advice about 'bathicot' was helpful. I think there are similar ways to get our technique/stroke smoothed out. 'Takes a bit of fortitude to even contemplate. Kudos for talking about it.

 

[danjared]

Ohhh. You have a nice one, danjared. I'm jealous. Even a plain one in 6/8 would be heavenly. This one is humble, but really delivers the goods - like a Genco fluid steel. This is a plain jane 1503. No face etching, basic black scales w/ a nibble or two. 5/8 square point.
Looks like this one w/ plain black scales. http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Robeson_Cutlery_Co_"ShurEdge"_Square_Point_5/8

I forgot to mention the minimal hone wear and original wool sheath (button clasp!). (Alright, I'm done distracting from the topic.)

 

[RicTic]

RicTic: The asagi made me deal with the quality of my stroke - which probably wasn't very good. I noticed the occasional minor departure of the spine from the stone, the role of fatique (for me), how to do a sweeping stroke and keep a consistent arc and absence of pressure without losing contact. For me it was humbling, but I think necc. to improve further. Lynn counseled to try the elbow up parallel to the floor. 'Works good, but fatiguing to do for long. Glen says to try having the length of the stone perpendicular to your hand/arm, instead of inline.

Beberlin's advice about 'bathicot' was helpful. I think there are similar ways to get our technique/stroke smoothed out. 'Takes a bit of fortitude to even contemplate. Kudos for talking about it.

While I recognise the difference between types of coticule's, I think richmondesi affords me to much credibility. Although he's perfectly correct, of course. About learning a particular type and mastering it, that is.
I'm still relatively new to honing and I'm modest enough to recognise my limitations.
Going back to basics won't do me any harm. Quite the contrary.

 

[pinklather]

I keep re-reading dulicot method to see if I've missed anything.

'Good news is that the dovo inox that got the better of me 2 days ago, yielded today. Again, so-so hht, but excellent shave test (minimal prep, atg, heavy stubby area). I love it when that 'I don't know how to make this work' feeling gives way to the learning and practice. Another good part is that it took only 20 min.

Danjared: "I forgot to mention the minimal hone wear and original wool sheath (button clasp!). (Alright, I'm done distracting from the topic.)" alright, rub it in!! It sounds (and looks) really really wonderful.

'Bit of eye candy in return. My Christmas present from the lovely bride.

 

[Paul]

While I recognise the difference between types of coticule's, I think richmondesi affords me to much credibility. Although he's perfectly correct, of course. About learning a particular type and mastering it, that is.
I'm still relatively new to honing and I'm modest enough to recognise my limitations.
Going back to basics won't do me any harm. Quite the contrary.

No, I agree going back to basics is never a bad thing. My point was the implication that Les Latneuses has you "spoiled" is the exact opposite from my experience. The LPB was/is much easier for me to get great results on. My point is you went through the learning curve already, and the difference isn't about the stone actually being better or spoiling you, rather I submit that you have a better understanding of it.