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over doing

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i've got to a stage where i have thought i'm probably doing to to many dilutions . could i get as good a result with less.

so i have been starting out with a real milky slurry, not coffe cream. less slurry less dilutions . i was still able to set bevel on my la patite blanch. i diluted as usaul with 15 to 20 laps per half sets. my lpb is only 125x40 still great size.I also checked arm hair cutting as i went along and tpt just for a change and see what was happening. this is what i noticed. i tryed this on three differant layers and all were the same.

the arm was poping of bvel setting. so just cutting arm with some resistants. so dilut e ed from there also bevel was under cutting slurry. i did a couple of dilutions , and checked arm hair and to my surprisemant the edge was not cutting. so i did a nother set much lighter and the came back straight away. i'm persuming this normal as with back and forth strokes pressure can cause just that, all though the razor is still being sharpend. the tpt seemed the same all the way throught slurry stages.i did only 10 dilutons and when was at the end the arm hair was being cut and the tpt was not sticky sharp but pritty grabby. i then finished on 50 laaps with misty coloured water and 50 laps on water only normal x light strokes. the hht was bang on, the tpt came alive after the water strokes big time.

it seems like most of the sharpening kicks in at the very end .

i found starting out with not so creamy slurry worked a treat, took less sets to dilute as there was not loads of slurry from the start. So it can be done with less sets.

i have done this on three razors, and they all came up to par efortlessly.

if i was doing serious bevel improve mant i would be inclined to use heavier or creamier slurry, then drop down to milky slurry for the rest.

it amazed me how in slurry stages there seemed very small changes and at the last couple of stages the razor became sticky sharp.

how many dilutions are you guys averaging?

i normaly don't count but i reckon i have been averging 20 to 30. i also reckon this is due to starting out with too much slurry.
 
Very interesting post Gary. I will say that La Petite Blanches are not a fair comparison point, though because they work so quickly (I don't know what else you used, but I'm guessing La Veinnette and Les Lanteuses both of which would deliver equally excellent results). However, I bet you'd be a little less impressed with La Nouvelle Veine in this type of test. :D
 
the other one was the les lat hybrid and the yellow side.its a strange one as i somtimes find if i start out with a little thicker than normal slurry the dulling efect can take some undoing. where as lighter slurry puts you in front a little so long as bevel is set.so i'm persuming the bevel is set , then may be just go from real milky slurry , it may well vatu from hone to hone as the lpb has a slurry dulling more than most , i would say thats probably why it worked well plus the speed is there to keep the keeness up ther e . may be with slower hone the slurry would not have the cutting power to maintain the keeness. i'm sure its trial and error and pot luck.

i've not used my la vainette that much , i seem to have not quite masterd that one yet. it seems to me that water stages on mine is not quite doing enought. i have had good shaves but i've had to realy work on the last stages for quite some time or even start again. the good thing is i can always go to my les layt hybrid side and be gauranteed success first time. Why i don't no but it just seems to suit me .one thing for sure it amazes me how the edge becomes real sticky with just water strokes.

back a thew years ago i just newster hone on slurry and finish on water with 100 laps . The shaves were ok but some resitants . not far of, which make s me think we should'nt need to much else in between.infact i may try a real milky slurry , hone untill the edge maxes out and then just finish on water.
 
Very interesting indeed Gaz, I usually do about 15 dilutions and 20 half strokes per set, I too would be interested in seeing how other layers compare, I have only the 3 that Paul listed, and they do the job nicely for me with that amount of dilutions, I always start with a thin slurry, if I am struggling to shave arm I make it a little thinner, not thicker. and if I have any small chips etc. to work out I do start with a slightly slurry, but I never expect the edge to start cutting arm hair until I have diluted it down to milky.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
well i just took my john clarkes razor and gave it a good dulling a bout 4 light passes on glass.

i used my la drassante au blue which is slow compared to other hones with slurry.

any way i set bevel in no time with a slurry medium. i then diluted my slurry to a skimmed milk.I kept it that way by adding adrop of water if needed, which i did . I did 6 sets of half strokes 20 per set, i then finished with 50 normal x strokes and then rinsed the hone and did 100 laps on water . the hht test of the hone was fine and even better after stropping. so basicly once bevel was set i did the rest on a consitancy of skimmed milk checking with tpt and finishing on water with 100 laps job done. not shaved but i'm sure the razor will be a good shave . the hht was good i have had slightly better, and much worse . i'd recomend any one new to give it ago or the any one who wants to.

either way i 'm sure the time differance is'nt much differant, wheather you dilute or not, the results i'm not to sure as i have only tryed this once or twice. i'm sure bart has tryed this and he will have a better experiance with none dilution and working on one level of thin slurry.

cheers gaz
 
It would be interesting to see photos of what different people considered to be milky slurry.

Great thread, Gary! I am anxious to try this out.
 
jkh said:
It would be interesting to see photos of what different people considered to be milky slurry.

Great thread, Gary! I am anxious to try this out.

give it ago set bevel and do as many sets on milky slurry as you think , untill the edge feels real sharp. then finish of with 50 normal laps on exsiting slurry then 100 laps on clean water.

milky slurry, i would say create a slurry paste . add drop of water and rub it round do this untill it looks like you have poured milk on the hone. then just keep the slurry like that and try not to push it of the top or bottom of your hone, keep it milky and don't let it become thicker or dry..
 
garyhaywood said:
well i just took my john clarkes razor and gave it a good dulling a bout 4 light passes on glass.
Normaly i pass 12 levels of dilution with my vintage coticule and maybe 15-16 for the inoxes.But
i never dull a razor on the glass ,for me remains a mystery why,however the razor become dulled
with the first stroke on the first slurry even is milky.Friend i need your opinion concerning specialy the dulling.
Best regards and wishes
Emmanuel
 
Interesting...I always struggle to find the perfect consistency for my slurry. From looking at Bart's video, he starts out with what I would call a fairly thick slurry. I've been trying to hone up a nice 6/8 vintage Inox Friodur I got for christmas. I don't know if it's the hard stainless steel or just the way the razor reacts to the coticule, but I can't get any real HHT after the water polishing stage, but after a good stropping session it pops hair quite nicely. What approach do you guys normally take with stainless steel? I know that some people say that more passes on a higher grit is essential...
 
emmanuel said:
garyhaywood said:
well i just took my john clarkes razor and gave it a good dulling a bout 4 light passes on glass.
Normaly i pass 12 levels of dilution with my vintage coticule and maybe 15-16 for the inoxes.But
i never dull a razor on the glass ,for me remains a mystery why,however the razor become dulled
with the first stroke on the first slurry even is milky.Friend i need your opinion concerning specialy the dulling.
Best regards and wishes
Emmanuel

its only lightly dulling . but its just prooves what my coticule can do with slurry so basicly i no what my coticule is capable of . if i carn't set the bevel with slurry then i no i have a problem. don't get me wrong somtimes i don't bother also it lets me no if i'm hitting the whole edge . so if my toe or heal was'nt getting any better i'd alter my stroke to get those areas. i'd hate to go through the whole process and not of hit the whole edge . aprt from that its just a personal choice and a starting block.

gary
 
jfdupuis said:
Interesting...I always struggle to find the perfect consistency for my slurry. From looking at Bart's video, he starts out with what I would call a fairly thick slurry. I've been trying to hone up a nice 6/8 vintage Inox Friodur I got for christmas. I don't know if it's the hard stainless steel or just the way the razor reacts to the coticule, but I can't get any real HHT after the water polishing stage, but after a good stropping session it pops hair quite nicely. What approach do you guys normally take with stainless steel? I know that some people say that more passes on a higher grit is essential...

my puma inox was a bogger to get right of the coticule why i just don't no. did manage it but still not perfect. infact a well known honer had a go at it for me and he said it was'nt taking a nice edge . i sent it to bob keyes who has repaired the pins on it and he has honed up and its now shaving very well, so bob says i have yet to try it. infact he said there was some chipping in the edge from previous honing and a flat spot , that explains why it was biting me .bob used 4k/8k 12k kitiyama

my livi inox 7/8 i honed that up on coticule and after a coupe of honing s its now spot on. i'd just hone as normal i don't think there that much differance in the honing. just finish with some paste or unicot.or try dilucot with one layer of tape i find you reach keenes a little easier with a layer of tape .
 
Thanks guys. After shaving with it last night, I took it back to the coticule this morning for a few more dilutions followed by water only. We'll see how it performs tonight. If it doesn't improve, maybe I'll try a few passes on Cr0x.

I'm also starting to think that my routine of shaving using cold water might be why I'm getting a big more resistance since the hair stands straighter. Although it might create a bit more resistance, I very much enjoy how it leaves my face feeling after shaving.

JF
 
emmanuel said:
i never dull a razor on the glass ,for me remains a mystery why

I dull on glass so I can tell when the bevel is set flat, for as we all know An edge can't develop keenness on a hone before both sides of the cutting bevel are completely flat all the way up to very edge.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Gaz, you are doing what were were pm'ing about a few weeks ago, I think. When coming off the dmt 1200 with a positive bevel set, the edge stropped just a little to remove the micro burr, you can almost go right to the final finishing if everything is right. I think you might have dulled after the first slurry either with normal slurry dulling or a micro burr. To see which, give it a couple of laps on the strop. I think it sets so fast in the final stages because it is getting rid of the burr while it polishes the edge. I can definitely feel a difference before and after six laps on a strop (or jeans) with the tpt or hht at any level of the polishing phase.

To me, Gary, you are the perfect example of the old school barbers who were fascinated with their craft. I'm sure some of them were wizards with their stones, just like you have become. You are a hoot, my friend.

Most sincerely, Denny
 
tat2Ralfy said:
emmanuel said:
i never dull a razor on the glass ,for me remains a mystery why

I dull on glass so I can tell when the bevel is set flat, for as we all know An edge can't develop keenness on a hone before both sides of the cutting bevel are completely flat all the way up to very edge.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
Yes Sir i fully agree with you but as i said the edge become dull automatically and naturally with the first contact on slurry so i believe that making an edge flat even lighly you spent
steel.This is my humble perception.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
Ah I see "Slurry dulling" yes this does of course happen, however if the slurry is not too thick one can easily set the bevel, and leave an edge that cuts arm hair.
It can take a little practice to get the slurry right.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
DJKELLY said:
Gaz, you are doing what were were pm'ing about a few weeks ago, I think. When coming off the dmt 1200 with a positive bevel set, the edge stropped just a little to remove the micro burr, you can almost go right to the final finishing if everything is right. I think you might have dulled after the first slurry either with normal slurry dulling or a micro burr. To see which, give it a couple of laps on the strop. I think it sets so fast in the final stages because it is getting rid of the burr while it polishes the edge. I can definitely feel a difference before and after six laps on a strop (or jeans) with the tpt or hht at any level of the polishing phase.

To me, Gary, you are the perfect example of the old school barbers who were fascinated with their craft. I'm sure some of them were wizards with their stones, just like you have become. You are a hoot, my friend.

Most sincerely, Denny

the 6 laps on jeans defanatley works i have tryed that also , i have been setting bevel on coticule . but yes set bevel on dmt and it does'nt take much as we both tryed . i went straight to coti with light slurry and then water . its what bart recomended some time a go was dmt1200 bbw slurry and coti water very simple and works.
 
tat2Ralfy said:
Ah I see "Slurry dulling" yes this does of course happen, however if the slurry is not too thick one can easily set the bevel, and leave an edge that cuts arm hair.
It can take a little practice to get the slurry right.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

that catches a lot of fokes out they carn't shave arm hair . all thought bevel is set . i do 10 light normal x's and then check making sure slurry is thinner .if still not there go back to half strokes. general;y as soon as you thin slurry your shaving arm hair all of suden , you then realize it was your slurry being over thick. it may not look it but it is deceiving. Once again its noing the slurry and how it responds on your particular coticule.
 
jkh said:
It would be interesting to see photos of what different people considered to be milky slurry.
Here you've got some, and good comments as well. As I see it now, several slurry stone rubs at #1 get you to milky slurry, or a few finger dip dilutions added to #2. Somewhere in between, in general, as long as viscosity doesn't noticeably differ from that of water.

If there's a need, I could shoot some good quality pictures of various slurry densities one day, and they could be given as a rough reference for anyone who might have doubts with it. Give me your thoughts on it folks.

regards,
Matt
 
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