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Razors you need to stay away from

BeBerlin said:
This is a Gold Dollar "razor", straight from eBay. I only had my wife's mobile phone camera, but I'm sure Nico will let me take better pictures if anyone requires them. Its design is obviously inspired by nature, most likely an earthquake:
Click to expand...

Nice Fault Line at the edge.
 
Very weird how "sharp" the spinal curve gets near the shoulder of the blade. It looks like the same grinding wheel with very small diameter was also used to grind the "corner" between shoulder and tang.

If you want to buy a Gold Dollar, go for model 208. I have one on my desk right now, awaiting to be shipped back to the owner. It's a nice razor and a good shave.
Here's a picture (of Ebay) I've honed several of these and they all were like this one. Slight smile, but no warp of weird curves, like the one shown first.

208.jpg


Kind regards,
Bart.
 
tat2Ralfy said:
And do you think these are our beloved DA's, at an even lower price?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cut-Throat-Ba...rber_Shop_Collectables_LE&hash=item3f0003d57f

You never know

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
Click to expand...

I don't think they're Double Arrows. This one has a double stabilizer, Double Arrows have not.
The only way to know for sure is to try one.

About the Gold Dollar 108. I've also sharpened these (2 so far, if memory serves). One had the same shoulder issue like the Double Arrows, the other one appeared to be fixed already. They took a very good edge.

It seems like the lower numbers of Gold Dollar are the ones with more serious grinding issues.

Kenrup at Ruprazor sells the Gold Dollars. He has an excellent reputation. He fixed minor issues with the shoulder and scales. But he can't fix the steel so it must be good, or he wouldn't be selling them.



Kind regards,
Bart.
 
In my opinion, that is a fraudulent listing. Granted, everyone with minimal experience can see that the razor is shortened, but a less experienced guy who's lured by the name of the brand, may overlook it. Such important issues with the blade should be mentioned in the description. It is clear to me that the seller deliberately doesn't mention it, in the hope to get a high bid.

:thumbdown:
Bart.
 
tat2Ralfy said:
And heres the 208 Bart approved and cheaper than chips :thumbup:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-CARBON-ST...rber_Shop_Collectables_LE&hash=item414d866814

If some kind soul wants to buy 2 and send them to me, I will hone them and send you 1 back, sounds like a deal?

Best wishes
Ralfson (Gold dollar lacking...Dr)
Click to expand...

I might just take you up on that offer if you are serious :) I'd offer one twist to save a little on shipping - I'll PayPal you for two of the razors plus shipping, you buy the razors from eBay and have them shipped directly to you, hone at least one of them with an amazing edge and ship to me.

Cheers,
Jeremy
 
Smythe said:
Reviving an old thread to ask this question...
For those who believe branding can do no wrong... Isn't This auction hilarious?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-OLD-DUBL-DUCK-GOLDEDGE-PEARLDUCK-STRAIGHT-RAZOR-/110551424802

Maybe... just maybe, someone may want the scales... but (currently) at 5 bids, $46 and 2 hours to go, my wallet says "No".
Click to expand...
He states:

"ALL KNIVES ARE SOLD "AS IS" SO PLEASE READ DESCRIPTION AND CHECK ALL PICTURES BEFORE BIDDING.
I HAVE A 7 DAY RETURN POLICY INCLUDING ORIGINAL SHIPPING COST IF THE ITEM IS DESCRIBED INCORRECTLY."

The capitals are not mine. My wicked brain translates that to:
"PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL. I AM TRYING TO RIP YOU OFF. I WON'T ACCEPT ANY RETURNS AND WILL HIDE BEHIND THE PICTURES"

2 thumbs down.:thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Bart.
 
jkh said:
tat2Ralfy said:
And heres the 208 Bart approved and cheaper than chips :thumbup:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-CARBON-ST...rber_Shop_Collectables_LE&hash=item414d866814

If some kind soul wants to buy 2 and send them to me, I will hone them and send you 1 back, sounds like a deal?

Best wishes
Ralfson (Gold dollar lacking...Dr)
Click to expand...

I might just take you up on that offer if you are serious :) I'd offer one twist to save a little on shipping - I'll PayPal you for two of the razors plus shipping, you buy the razors from eBay and have them shipped directly to you, hone at least one of them with an amazing edge and ship to me.

Cheers,
Jeremy
Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan, bet your squidly diddly I am serious, send me a p.m and we can do just that Jeremy

Best wishes
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Good Sheffield steel/Brand, thumb-notch with jumps, shoulder-less. But In My Opinion… at $249, still not worth the price of admission… the flat spot on the spine is a bit wide at the point, turned up edge at the point… too many negatives.

…but my “point” for bringing auction this to your attention is educational… Have a good long look at the scales.

They are indeed genuine Ivory.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-ENGLAND-SHEFFIELD-J-NOWILL-SONS-STRAIGHT-RAZOR-/350335773729
 
Auctions like that make me wonder how the market actually works. Apparently, there is a separate market for scale collectors. I have seen several broken razors with interesting scales for even higher prices. While I find this strange, I can understand that some people like looking at pretty scales.

What I fail to understand is why some razors that are apparently meant for shaving go for the now usual prices. The prime suspect being Filarmonicas, of course. I simply do not understand the motivation for paying USD 300 and more for a razor that can be replaced with a USD 100 or less razor functionally if what you want to do with it is shave. While I was still writing reviews, I always tried to make a point that brand names are something that can be used to narrow your search, but that they are no indication of the quality of an individual item per se. One of the guys who was actually in charge of their production said Dubl Ducks were "cheap export stuff", "usually ground by apprentices", and "the grinds were too hollow to be of much use". Funnily enough, that perceived functional defect is being sold as a feature these days. Don't get me wrong, I think Dubl Ducks are nice razors, and the fact that several of them were made by Dovo is a good thing, really. But it strikes me as odd that you can cash in USD 150 or more for Dubl Ducks in so-so shape, and significantly more if they are in top shape. They are, let's face it, standard Solingen issue with dysfunctional (flimsy, typically discoloured, and 90% warped scales.

Same for Wade and Butcher razors. Mass produced, and more often than not in deplorable states. Still, you will have to pay a premium for the brand name, and to me, that seems a not very clever idea, as long as functionally equal or better razors with less known names can be had for significantly less money.

I am not that bored, yet, but one day, I just might draw a chart with a timeline from "razor getting positive feedback on a major forum" to "prices go up 100% or more". In the case of the three brands above, that would be simple, but I have been noticing similar developments WRT other brands, too. It really is a bit of a shame, because I like razor to be used, not hoarded or - worse - customised.

That said, I think this whole thread is a slightly useless. Not because it does not address an imminent, problem, quite the contrary. But because there is so much junk on eBay (and certain forums with market places attached to them). I just took a quick stroll down eBay lane, and found 10 razors that would fit in this thread within less than 3 minutes. It really is an exercise in futility. As long as there are people who suck up to other people's publicly share opinions, there is a market for junk. Not to forget the fact that many sellers really do not know what a straight razor is supposed to look like (cf, 'it is so sharp, it cuts paper effortlessly').

What the world needs is an online venue for expert reviews with peer review by people with no commercial interest, and a sound understanding of razors. I know of no such venue, and I feel it would be a very nice market niche.

Just for the record, I would have paid USD 24.9 for the one that went for USD 249. :)

Regards,
Robin
 
I couldnt agree more Robin, and look forward to seeing that report should you ever be bored enough to compile it

BTW I cant interest you in an old Henckles rescaled in recycled bowling ball, can I? (jk of course my friend) hahaha
 
BeBerlin said:
Auctions like that make me wonder how the market actually works. Apparently, there is a separate market for scale collectors. I have seen several broken razors with interesting scales for even higher prices. While I find this strange, I can understand that some people like looking at pretty scales.

What I fail to understand is why some razors that are apparently meant for shaving go for the now usual prices. The prime suspect being Filarmonicas, of course. I simply do not understand the motivation for paying USD 300 and more for a razor that can be replaced with a USD 100 or less razor functionally if what you want to do with it is shave. While I was still writing reviews, I always tried to make a point that brand names are something that can be used to narrow your search, but that they are no indication of the quality of an individual item per se. One of the guys who was actually in charge of their production said Dubl Ducks were "cheap export stuff", "usually ground by apprentices", and "the grinds were too hollow to be of much use". Funnily enough, that perceived functional defect is being sold as a feature these days. Don't get me wrong, I think Dubl Ducks are nice razors, and the fact that several of them were made by Dovo is a good thing, really. But it strikes me as odd that you can cash in USD 150 or more for Dubl Ducks in so-so shape, and significantly more if they are in top shape. They are, let's face it, standard Solingen issue with dysfunctional (flimsy, typically discoloured, and 90% warped scales.

Same for Wade and Butcher razors. Mass produced, and more often than not in deplorable states. Still, you will have to pay a premium for the brand name, and to me, that seems a not very clever idea, as long as functionally equal or better razors with less known names can be had for significantly less money.

I am not that bored, yet, but one day, I just might draw a chart with a timeline from "razor getting positive feedback on a major forum" to "prices go up 100% or more". In the case of the three brands above, that would be simple, but I have been noticing similar developments WRT other brands, too. It really is a bit of a shame, because I like razor to be used, not hoarded or - worse - customised.

That said, I think this whole thread is a slightly useless. Not because it does not address an imminent, problem, quite the contrary. But because there is so much junk on eBay (and certain forums with market places attached to them). I just took a quick stroll down eBay lane, and found 10 razors that would fit in this thread within less than 3 minutes. It really is an exercise in futility. As long as there are people who suck up to other people's publicly share opinions, there is a market for junk. Not to forget the fact that many sellers really do not know what a straight razor is supposed to look like (cf, 'it is so sharp, it cuts paper effortlessly').

What the world needs is an online venue for expert reviews with peer review by people with no commercial interest, and a sound understanding of razors. I know of no such venue, and I feel it would be a very nice market niche.

Just for the record, I would have paid USD 24.9 for the one that went for USD 249. :)

Regards,
Robin
Click to expand...

Indeed, some folks like to look at pretty scales (which brings us back to DDs and their ilk)… at the time was cheap, and common but pretty but that's human nature. But I suspect we all know who inadvertently started this DD craze.

I remember a celluloid Lobster Scale razor with a blade so rusty that only the spine had anything resembling steel, I recall correctly it went for around $500 at auction. Of course I can only speak for myself as a “practical” collector, for me it’s all about the blade… sure, I appreciate pretty scales as much as anyone, but I believe in durability and pulpous of use, and unfortunately, celluloid is one of those not-so-durable materials, the damn thing will eventually destroy the steel it is supposed to protect.
On the other hand, they don’t make those beautiful lobster scales anymore, and may never ever make them again. I met a few folks whose passion was to collect some of the rarest and one-of-a-kind objects on the planet (no matter the condition, so long as it’s the genuine article), usually, for those folks money is of no concern, the condition of the steel would be of no concern (most won’t shave with it anyway). It is the artwork on the scales that is most priceless. For razors we have to “think” the other way around… like the Picasso, the picture (scales) is what’s valuable; the fame (blade) is just a shell…. BTW believe it or not… most if not all celluloid scales were press molded, but the lobster scales and others like it were hand painted.

Speaking of prices skyrocketing after a favorable review by the “worshiped” few on popular forums… Reminds me of a not-so-smart fellow who tried to convince his “flock” that a heavily worn razor was really “Smiling Art”. Thank goodness intelligent heads prevailed, or I am sure we would be witness to the biggest Butchered-Blade Sticker-shock ever seen in the shaving collectible community.

Indeed when I first got into this business… err… hobby; I had no idea what a razor was supposed to look like… so I looked at what the “experts” had on display. Sure enough, brightly polished blade faces… in fact, currently there are so many restored with polished face that new folks are beginning to believe that ALL straight razors were mirror polished when new. It turns out that almost all “common” razors (and some pricey ones) were never polished on the face, one reason is it was time and labor intensive, and polishing could easily foul the temper. They would only polish the face if it were to be “frosted” etch, and that was almost never done for full hollow blades.

I have nothing against making new scales if the originals are no good or it’s a “common” razor. But I take exception to the folks who have absolutely no clue of the collectible/historical value of some of these razors. And just because they have a few dollars more of disposable income, the first thing they do is moronically rip-off perfectly good original scales, and replace with a pair of hooey-style, candy-cane colored Acrylic slabs, to show-off and have his ego massaged in public. And when he’s gets board of his “creation” he goes and sell the thing to some poor sap at an inflated price, and than does the same thing over again… with another great piece of history. The unfortunate thing is… the ego doesn’t get massaged if the blade is not a collectible piece… so like a worm he will continue to destroy good works until the rest of us wake up and see the folly… hopefully it wont be too late to save some the few remaining originals for our children to appreciate.

So this “almost” useless thread is a “one man army” attempt to try and inform folks (especially new folks) who want to acquire vintage razors for collection or use... without spending too much hard money on the un-salvageable junk… OK let me step down from my "soap box"… I do this for fun and I suppose one day I will ruffle someone’s feathers in the process. But then it'll be 10 times the fun.
 
Bart said:
Smythe said:
Reviving an old thread to ask this question...
For those who believe branding can do no wrong... Isn't This auction hilarious?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-OLD-DUBL-DUCK-GOLDEDGE-PEARLDUCK-STRAIGHT-RAZOR-/110551424802

Maybe... just maybe, someone may want the scales... but (currently) at 5 bids, $46 and 2 hours to go, my wallet says "No".
Click to expand...
He states:

"ALL KNIVES ARE SOLD "AS IS" SO PLEASE READ DESCRIPTION AND CHECK ALL PICTURES BEFORE BIDDING.
I HAVE A 7 DAY RETURN POLICY INCLUDING ORIGINAL SHIPPING COST IF THE ITEM IS DESCRIBED INCORRECTLY."

The capitals are not mine. My wicked brain translates that to:
"PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL. I AM TRYING TO RIP YOU OFF. I WON'T ACCEPT ANY RETURNS AND WILL HIDE BEHIND THE PICTURES"

2 thumbs down.:thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Bart.
Click to expand...

Well you know me… always looking at the bright side… maybe he’s no expert.
However I’m sure he did his research to figure the going rate of these razors… but somehow failed to notice his razor was a little shorter than it should be.

OK so no one is perfect… it’s only about ¼ inch shorter… Maybe he missed it…

BTW judging from his past auctions, he appears to be an expert with “vintage?” pocket knives… doesn’t take much to figure out the flaws of a straight razor from that point of view… and this one is major flaw.

I would say 3 thumbs down :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
And one more for good measure :thumbdown:
 
I don't think this thread is an "exercise in futility", unless all relaxed converstations between gentlemen in a pub ought to be considered exercises in futility. Perhaps they are, but my life would be dull without them. :)

But the true merit of this thread is that less experienced straight razor buyers are served with a number of examples that show what to watch out for on today's market of second hand razors. It also allows us to look at a few cases through the eyes of seasoned collectors of seviceable razors, such as the venerable Cedrick Smythe. I find that highly interesting and illuminating. I hope this thread will go on for a long time.

Then we have the peculiar case of Dubl' Duck Razors. I don't know who originally made that "they're all ground by apprentices"-remark, but there's something very strange with that:
First of all, I have seen and honed several Dubl' Ducks, mostly Goldedges and Satinedges but also a number of other models. Apprentices or not, without exception the grinds were flawless. Also the scales are of classic beauty, perhaps a bit too classic with those bucolic little ducks, but hey, that's exactly the kind of ornaments my grandparents loved. As I understand it, Bresnick was a large seller in the US, so we can hardly blame them for choosing a design that appealed to the masses. Nonethless, every aspect of the Dubl'Duck razors I have seen was very well executed. I also think you can't blame them for having Celluloid as scale mateiral. For a razor that needs to serve half a century, it's a perfect material, certainly at the kind of storage conditions that someone, who actually uses the razor, would provide for. We must accept that razors were not intended for collectioning in the far future, but for shaving, and we can't blame the original manufacturer for not using a most durable material.

Secondly, there's someting not quite right with apprentices doing thin grinds. No doubt, the thin grinds are the most difficult to perform. They come, form evolutionary viewpoint, after the beefier grinds. With a stiffer grind, one can get away with slight uneveness without compromising the stiffness of the blade, and without the risk of grinding right through it. "Singing" razors are not for nothing more expensive. They require more work and better craftsman. Dubl' Ducks are indeed always very thinly ground. That makes them easier (read: quicker) to sharpen, and they will also take good keenness, because that is what narrow bevels do. At least when the steel is good for it, which is the case with all German razors.

In essence, Dubl' Ducks are no different than any other Solingen razor with that kind of very thin grind. Whether those bucolic scales are worth the extra bucks to get one, is a decision of a personal nature. I don't own one myself, but I have a few other very thin blades.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Although I think I understand Robin's boredom with the subject of this thread, I personally appreciate Cedric's efforts to enlighten straight razor toddlers like me. :)
And I second Bart in his hope of this thread to be continued.
Maybe Cedric could even venture to create a short "what to look at when buing a razor" guide? Unless something like that already exists...
 
maro said:
Although I think I understand Robin's boredom with the subject of this thread, I personally appreciate Cedric's efforts to enlighten straight razor toddlers like me. :)
And I second Bart in his hope of this thread to be continued.
Maybe Cedric could even venture to create a short "what to look at when buing a razor" guide? Unless something like that already exists...
Click to expand...
Working on just such an article as we speak…
I’m a collector, restorer… and part-time razor vendor (there goes the “V” word again) so the article will touch on all three points of view. So unfortunately, be prepared for a long boring essay… but I will try to include photos to help liven it up a bit.

This will be a long weekend here in the US (July 4th), so as soon as I get the wife and kids off to somewhere nice, I will have the time to finish something that looks presentable.
 
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