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Shaving Prep
- Thread starter PA23-250
- Start Date
Bart
Well-Known Member
Castle Forbes?
I've tried the lime once, while I stayed at Robin's in Berlin. It's an excellent cream. What can I say? I did not care for the smell of fresh limes. But it made a lot of dense lather, dense even when it carries loads of hot water in it. I believe that's why it's considered such a great cream. It's still firm when more than fully hydrated. Inferior creams run out when they have to contain a fair amount of water. I personally believe water is key to a shave. A good lather caries loads of it and keeps it in place, while it's working the whiskers. (If you shower up front, this may be less important). Castle Forbes performs very well in that respect. I think it also has a good formula to take care of the skin, but that can only be confirmed by someone like Robin, who has used it a fair number of shaves in a row.
Best regards,
Bart.
I've tried the lime once, while I stayed at Robin's in Berlin. It's an excellent cream. What can I say? I did not care for the smell of fresh limes. But it made a lot of dense lather, dense even when it carries loads of hot water in it. I believe that's why it's considered such a great cream. It's still firm when more than fully hydrated. Inferior creams run out when they have to contain a fair amount of water. I personally believe water is key to a shave. A good lather caries loads of it and keeps it in place, while it's working the whiskers. (If you shower up front, this may be less important). Castle Forbes performs very well in that respect. I think it also has a good formula to take care of the skin, but that can only be confirmed by someone like Robin, who has used it a fair number of shaves in a row.
Best regards,
Bart.
Great thread guys! Personally I've been using a new method as of late.
Shower
Wash my face while in the shower
Strop Razor
Create lather (cold lather)
Cold water rince
dry face
apply cold lather on face
work in with fingers
Shave
cold rince
Alum block
water rince
Thayers' WH
AS balm
The cold routine is really working well with my sensitive skin. Using hot water during the whole process only made my skin more tender and dry.
You guys should really give this one a try. You won't regret it
Cheers,
JF
Shower
Wash my face while in the shower
Strop Razor
Create lather (cold lather)
Cold water rince
dry face
apply cold lather on face
work in with fingers
Shave
cold rince
Alum block
water rince
Thayers' WH
AS balm
The cold routine is really working well with my sensitive skin. Using hot water during the whole process only made my skin more tender and dry.
You guys should really give this one a try. You won't regret it
Cheers,
JF
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
i have tryed castle forbes sandle wood cedar. It's nice cream , i just prefer soaps my self.
Matt
Well-Known Member
So far my most effective routine has been
(OFFTOPIC) However, I'm constantly worrying if my gear is in top notch condition, even the razors I had sharpened by a member of SRP had troubles with passing HHT perfectly - or it just could be me not being able to do it correctly, though the procedure is not that complicated... I've felt recently it would be time to ask you, Bart, for honing, so I'd have a certain benchmark to compare other razors with.
kind regards,
Matt
[li]washing face (soap or cleanser didn't notice much difference), [/li]
[li]applying a pre-shave lather directly on face - Omega shaving soap, the only one I've tried so far (usu. after shower, but not necesarily),[/li]
[li]letting it stay while I build "main" lather,[/li]
[li]washing it off with as hot water as possible,[/li]
[li]applying baby oil (I didn't bother to get some fancy pre-shave oil) - this leaves my skin in even better condition[/li]
[li]applying main lather[/li]
(OFFTOPIC) However, I'm constantly worrying if my gear is in top notch condition, even the razors I had sharpened by a member of SRP had troubles with passing HHT perfectly - or it just could be me not being able to do it correctly, though the procedure is not that complicated... I've felt recently it would be time to ask you, Bart, for honing, so I'd have a certain benchmark to compare other razors with.
kind regards,
Matt
Bart
Well-Known Member
I have never liked the idea of pre-shave oils. I haven't tried any, so please, you must really take my ramblings about them for what they are: ramblings of a stubborner who refuses to give them a fair try.
But here's what I think. I know for fact that hairs are hygroscopic. They love to suck up moisture. When they do, the inner core swells and this opens up the outer cells, who are arranged like scales of a fish. This makes it easier for a razor to penetrate. On top of all that, the keratin itself softens when it becomes hydrated, which makes the scales more pliable Again, this allows the edge to pass with less stress. These are generally accepted scientific facts. We don't call it "wet" shaving for nothing. Nature it self tries to protect our hairs, by secreting oily substances that protects the hair from moisture and other hostile influences.
I believe one of the big reasons why we use "soap" to shave, is because we need to remove that potective layer of oil from the hair to allow it to become fully hydrated. That is the reason why I don't see the benifts of oily substances in the preparation process. And if I was going to use any oil, I would make damn' sure to fully hydrate the whiskers, before sealing them with a coat of oil. I do think that pre-shave oils may protect the skin to some extent, but what does that buy you when it provokes you to make put extra shaving effort onto the blade?
I have read some guys testify that it saves them from ingrown hairs. If so that only means they managed to shave slightly less close, thanks to the preshave oil. Because that is the only remedy to prevent ingrown hairs, is you have the bad luck that your whiskers curl up underneath your skin before they manage to grow out again. I've alse read Lynn Abrams statement, that pre-shave oil only serves to help the skin on the long term. If I understood him correctly, pre-shave oil may show benefits for people with sensitive skin, after several shaves.
Just trying to stir the discussion a bit.
Kind regards,
Bart.
But here's what I think. I know for fact that hairs are hygroscopic. They love to suck up moisture. When they do, the inner core swells and this opens up the outer cells, who are arranged like scales of a fish. This makes it easier for a razor to penetrate. On top of all that, the keratin itself softens when it becomes hydrated, which makes the scales more pliable Again, this allows the edge to pass with less stress. These are generally accepted scientific facts. We don't call it "wet" shaving for nothing. Nature it self tries to protect our hairs, by secreting oily substances that protects the hair from moisture and other hostile influences.
I believe one of the big reasons why we use "soap" to shave, is because we need to remove that potective layer of oil from the hair to allow it to become fully hydrated. That is the reason why I don't see the benifts of oily substances in the preparation process. And if I was going to use any oil, I would make damn' sure to fully hydrate the whiskers, before sealing them with a coat of oil. I do think that pre-shave oils may protect the skin to some extent, but what does that buy you when it provokes you to make put extra shaving effort onto the blade?
I have read some guys testify that it saves them from ingrown hairs. If so that only means they managed to shave slightly less close, thanks to the preshave oil. Because that is the only remedy to prevent ingrown hairs, is you have the bad luck that your whiskers curl up underneath your skin before they manage to grow out again. I've alse read Lynn Abrams statement, that pre-shave oil only serves to help the skin on the long term. If I understood him correctly, pre-shave oil may show benefits for people with sensitive skin, after several shaves.
Just trying to stir the discussion a bit.
Kind regards,
Bart.
I don't thoroughly dry my face. The cold water rince really makes the hair stand up. I find it very refreshing in the morning too. The hot water just makes me want to go back to bed. I get up at 5:40 AM every morning so I really enjoy the little extra boost. If you want to read more about the method, there's a great thread about it on SRD in the pre-shaving prep section
Cheers,
JF
Cheers,
JF
Paul
Well-Known Member
I never believed in preshave oils either. However, the premise of them is less about hair than it is about skin protection. This article in B&B's wiki explains that better than I can in this post. I'm still not a proponent of preshave oils because I think products with good "cushion" provide the suppleness to the skin that this is talking about. That's what I've come to define as cushion because as you said before, no other possible meaning makes sense to me 
:
:
Matt
Well-Known Member
I've had similar doubts as you have, Bart, but, being apparently less stubborn (is it the age?Bart said:
: ) I gave it a try once and the results got me convinced. Things you write about hydration are exact and precise - and this is why I apply this pre-lather - it sits on my face for at least 2, 3 or more minutes, while I moisten the soap again, scoop some of it, prepare lather, etc. Now, when stubble had enough time to be exposed to water and lather, I wash it again and then comes the oil and lather. At this point waiting any further with it on face doesn't make too much sense, so I immediately go on with a shave. I'm not an expert, so I won't give any general rules, but this really works for my skin.The only disadvantage I can see is the goo made up of mixed lather and oil, which stays on the edge and doesn't get rinsed as easily as lather alone. But this is rather an aesthetic issue.
kid regards,
Matt
Bart said:
Well, Bart, as with the Chromium Oxide discussion elsewhere - as a scholar/academic/philosopher myself, I am 100% with you in wanting to have scientific understandings/*explanations* of the phenomena we experience here with razors and faces, *BUT* sadly much of this world has not bee adequately studied by science, but HAS been worked through with the ol' empircal trial-and-error method. (What I meant about the Chromium Oxide was that you are right that it is technically an abrasive, but myself and many others find that --used in moderation - the actual *effect* it has is to smooth the edge, with not much effect on the abraded coarseness.) And the fact of the matter is that pre-shave oils *do* work - of course, YMMV, and they may not work or work equally for all, but it's not just placebo effect. I have been relying on oils since my Schick Subzero days, and (good ones) have a profound effect--really not reproducible by anything else - on the softness and glide of the razor. So, while I very much *want* to know what is missing with your I'm-sure-correct-as-far-as-it-goes explanation, I'm sure that there *is* something else out there. For those interested in experimenting, I can reccommend the Kiehl's pre-shave oil and the ARt of Shaving one. I have used the Kiehl's for years and it is great - surprisingly light for the strength of its effect. (I find too many are too light to do as much as they could.) The Art of Shaving is a relatively new one to me, and I have had trouble getting used to its thickness - it really is a thick, almost gooey (at first) oil, but it does work very well and I havent found anything else like it. Kinexium also makes a decent one, cheaper than the other two. One can be put off by the high price of many of the good pre-shave oils, but they last a very long time and in my mind are worth it. I have tried many times to do without them, in the interests of streamlining my routine, but I always come back.
End screed.:-/
Bart
Well-Known Member
Great post Mijbil. You're speaking out of experience, and that's certainly much more meaningful for people seeking good information, than my theoretical pondering. Personally I'm not tempted to try. Neither am I tempted to try a MachIII or any other modern shaving utensil. I'm too much a minimalist, I guess. I started straight razor shaving because of the challenge and the craftiness of it. Now, I don't mean any disrespect with the following, but imagine we would discover that lathering something like this would have the potential of wiping the whiskers of your face, even with a dull razor. (It's likely even true B) ) Would I use it? Hell no, I would not. Suppose they discover some substance that makes beard hair 50% less though, without any adverse side-effects. Would I buy such a new-tech shaving cream? Nope. I'm equally unwilling to buy a Gillette Fusion, although there are more people on the Planet who find that this device, in cooperation with the gel that carries the same name, provides the ultimate shave. I don't care. My line is drawn. When I chose to take the straight razor route, I chose to shave the traditional, primitive way. Something that could be done on a river bank, while hiking in the Ardens, and would make me feel authentic. That is a highly subjective, personal sentiment. Pre-shave oil just doesn't fit in for me. I feel lucky that I can get by with just water and a puck of soap. And I think that many people could. But those who do not share my obstinate romanticism, will find your post very helpful. And I thank you for that.
About Chromium Oxide, you're wrong to think that I dislike it. It's the second or third on my list of very best edge finishes (the Nakayma edges come really close). But I claim that one can learn to hone edges on a Coticule that can easily compete with a CrO finished edge. It is the very mission of this website to help people out who want to use Coticules to the full potential. So we often aim to not need any CrO.
But here's what I do not like in your post:
I just stopped using it, because I have an option that I personally like better.
But once again, in spite of this small annoyance, it was an excellent post.
Kind regards,
Bart.
About Chromium Oxide, you're wrong to think that I dislike it. It's the second or third on my list of very best edge finishes (the Nakayma edges come really close). But I claim that one can learn to hone edges on a Coticule that can easily compete with a CrO finished edge. It is the very mission of this website to help people out who want to use Coticules to the full potential. So we often aim to not need any CrO.
But here's what I do not like in your post:
You present it as if I have said somewhere that CrO adds "abraded coarseness" to an edge. Words that you must not put in my mouth, because I have never implied such a vision. CrO delivers very smooth edges. I have used it long enough to know that very well.Mijbil said:
I just stopped using it, because I have an option that I personally like better.
But once again, in spite of this small annoyance, it was an excellent post.
Kind regards,
Bart.
tat2Ralfy
Well-Known Member
Personally I dont dislike the cr.ox edge either, but given the choice that I have, I choose coti everytime, for me the scary sharpness of cr.ox is a little too crispy, and I shave heavy, at least 5 passes on my neck everyday, I can only do that with a coti edge, I have tried the edge from different pastes and they give me a sore neck. besides I am at the stage where I can get the coti edge as sharp as it needs to be, 1 razor, 1 hone, 1 bowl water, 1 strop = SHAVE ON!!
Thanks for your honest reaction, Bart. Let me clarify a few things, as I think we're not so far apart as you think.
1. Oil: What you say about the traditionalism, challenge, and minimalism of straight shaving is right on. When I first read your post I was thinking, "Well, sure, I guess we just disagree about oil." But with a few moments more to churn the little gears in my bucket, I would rather say this: for me, using the various (mostly) natural products like soaps and oils *is* part of the challenge. When I work out *the* perfect pre-shave regimen, as far as scuttle, brush, oil, and cream, that absolutely maximizes the performance of my razor on my face, and the way my face feels afterware, that produces a kind of self-reliant satisfaction similar to the satisfaction of having honed the blade myself and getting a greAT shave out of it. Now, of course, knives on stone is a different kind of pursuit from nancy-pancy oils and soaps on skin, and the two satisfactions are not entirely contiguous or similar. But to see my wonderful combination (this week) of Rooney brush, Art of Shaving pre shave oil Mithell's Wool Fat soap plus a little dollop of Vulfix Limes shavig cream work up my whiskers in the superior way it does *is* satisfying. True, it would be a bit tougher than a mere puck of soap to reproduce on the mountain trail. Butr A) that makes me happy I have such a cozy den to live in, and B) I would probably rig up some tiny little containers that can fit the whole routine into my back pocket on the trail and get a unique kind of satisfaction out of *that*.
2. CrOx - My apologies if I misunderstood what you had said about CrOx, I did think you were saying that it can be counter-productive at the end of a very fine honing because of the (rather) large size of the .5 micron abrasive particles. And "abraded coarseness" was my own, admittedly awkward, construction for the idea in the previous sentence. But what you say about maximizing the use of coticules to achieve a similar effect without the CrOx as a "crutch" at the end *definitely* strikes me as the way to go. Why would we want to add a whole additional step if we can get the same result by properly skilled use of the coti?
Cheers - and here's to mountain trails. You might enjoy this, from William Ellis of billysblades.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgpbcRIF5BE
PS - *Today* my first coti - BBW/yellow coti combo - arrived in the mail! I can't tell you how excited I am to take my honing to the next level and explore the possibilities of the coticule, and how grateful I am this site and community are here as a resource. It's really a great thing you've built up, Bart. You should be proud.
1. Oil: What you say about the traditionalism, challenge, and minimalism of straight shaving is right on. When I first read your post I was thinking, "Well, sure, I guess we just disagree about oil." But with a few moments more to churn the little gears in my bucket, I would rather say this: for me, using the various (mostly) natural products like soaps and oils *is* part of the challenge. When I work out *the* perfect pre-shave regimen, as far as scuttle, brush, oil, and cream, that absolutely maximizes the performance of my razor on my face, and the way my face feels afterware, that produces a kind of self-reliant satisfaction similar to the satisfaction of having honed the blade myself and getting a greAT shave out of it. Now, of course, knives on stone is a different kind of pursuit from nancy-pancy oils and soaps on skin, and the two satisfactions are not entirely contiguous or similar. But to see my wonderful combination (this week) of Rooney brush, Art of Shaving pre shave oil Mithell's Wool Fat soap plus a little dollop of Vulfix Limes shavig cream work up my whiskers in the superior way it does *is* satisfying. True, it would be a bit tougher than a mere puck of soap to reproduce on the mountain trail. Butr A) that makes me happy I have such a cozy den to live in, and B) I would probably rig up some tiny little containers that can fit the whole routine into my back pocket on the trail and get a unique kind of satisfaction out of *that*.
2. CrOx - My apologies if I misunderstood what you had said about CrOx, I did think you were saying that it can be counter-productive at the end of a very fine honing because of the (rather) large size of the .5 micron abrasive particles. And "abraded coarseness" was my own, admittedly awkward, construction for the idea in the previous sentence. But what you say about maximizing the use of coticules to achieve a similar effect without the CrOx as a "crutch" at the end *definitely* strikes me as the way to go. Why would we want to add a whole additional step if we can get the same result by properly skilled use of the coti?
Cheers - and here's to mountain trails. You might enjoy this, from William Ellis of billysblades.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgpbcRIF5BE
PS - *Today* my first coti - BBW/yellow coti combo - arrived in the mail! I can't tell you how excited I am to take my honing to the next level and explore the possibilities of the coticule, and how grateful I am this site and community are here as a resource. It's really a great thing you've built up, Bart. You should be proud.
justin
Well-Known Member
Ralfy said:
I don't really use any either. If my shave was kind of rough then I'll use some Thayer's Superhazel, and that's it. I used to use something everyday, but then I realized that I was just using it out of habit because when I first started out I needed something to relieve the irritation. Now I'm good with just a cold water rinse (maybe I should try out an Alum block?).
jonnyangel
Active Member
Oh Lord so much to do:
1.) Prep-I dont use extra products for my prep. So it goes something like this 1.) Good facial soap lather with the brush before the shower. 2.) Let the lather sit on my face until just before I get out I wash it all off and turn the hot water to high for a min or so. 3.) Lather up and let it sit while I strop.
However, JM Fraser's works great for softening my beard. I think it had something to do with the level of stearic acid they put into the cream. As far as I know, the acid is what really attacks the hair while you are letting it work. Highly recommend their creams for a straight!
2.) CO2-Errrrr, I dont have a coti yet, but I prefer this to my Kiita. There, I admit it! This stuff just works! Its a great balance of smooth and sharp. Very easy to get good results with and its CHEAP! Yet, Im still learning to hone. All in all, there is a reason we have been using CO2 for YEARS! I am a fan!
I am waiting for my coti. Number 32 and plan on getting to know her well. Till then I am gonna enjoy my edges.
1.) Prep-I dont use extra products for my prep. So it goes something like this 1.) Good facial soap lather with the brush before the shower. 2.) Let the lather sit on my face until just before I get out I wash it all off and turn the hot water to high for a min or so. 3.) Lather up and let it sit while I strop.
However, JM Fraser's works great for softening my beard. I think it had something to do with the level of stearic acid they put into the cream. As far as I know, the acid is what really attacks the hair while you are letting it work. Highly recommend their creams for a straight!
2.) CO2-Errrrr, I dont have a coti yet, but I prefer this to my Kiita. There, I admit it! This stuff just works! Its a great balance of smooth and sharp. Very easy to get good results with and its CHEAP! Yet, Im still learning to hone. All in all, there is a reason we have been using CO2 for YEARS! I am a fan!
I am waiting for my coti. Number 32 and plan on getting to know her well. Till then I am gonna enjoy my edges.