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Some success

Bart said:
It totally depends on the razor, it's steel formulation and heat treatment and on the bevel angle, how prone it will be to accumulate microscopical chips during use. I have once teared a visible chip out of an edge, when I spotted a missed hair at the corner of my mustache 2 hours after shaving. I took the razor and shaved the whisker dry. The edge said "ploink" and out came a nice chip of the edge. The whisker was gone too. :) So, beard preparation is a factor in edge longevity as well.

If I don't raise the bevel angle (by applying tape) of a Theirs Issard Silverwing, it will already accumulate serious micro-chipping from one shave. Someone in my older posts, there ought to be a picture of that. Ah, here it is: http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/message/15403.html
Edge longevity sure isn't the same on all razors.

But I try to give advice that works for all, which is: touch up early and often, and once the touch-ups stop working, it's time to re hone. If you never used a pasted strop, it will take a minute to pass the AHT after pre-dulling the edge. The effect of a stroke on glass is really almost nothing. But if the bevel is convex, or tired and out of whack, the pre-dulling will expose it, and you'll need to do the work it takes to fix it.

That doesn't mean that an experienced person can't skip all that, and just do what he know will be the minimum required to get a worn edge in peak condition.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Click to expand...


Bart First thank you.
May be a power touch up ,as Ralf said is a complete honing for me, but in case that i never use pasted strops or another tricky honing , as you say i pass very fast from another stage to the other. So i believe that the only different is nominal.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
Emmanuel said:
Bart said:
It totally depends on the razor, it's steel formulation and heat treatment and on the bevel angle, how prone it will be to accumulate microscopical chips during use. I have once teared a visible chip out of an edge, when I spotted a missed hair at the corner of my mustache 2 hours after shaving. I took the razor and shaved the whisker dry. The edge said "ploink" and out came a nice chip of the edge. The whisker was gone too. :) So, beard preparation is a factor in edge longevity as well.

If I don't raise the bevel angle (by applying tape) of a Theirs Issard Silverwing, it will already accumulate serious micro-chipping from one shave. Someone in my older posts, there ought to be a picture of that. Ah, here it is: http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/message/15403.html
Edge longevity sure isn't the same on all razors.

But I try to give advice that works for all, which is: touch up early and often, and once the touch-ups stop working, it's time to re hone. If you never used a pasted strop, it will take a minute to pass the AHT after pre-dulling the edge. The effect of a stroke on glass is really almost nothing. But if the bevel is convex, or tired and out of whack, the pre-dulling will expose it, and you'll need to do the work it takes to fix it.

That doesn't mean that an experienced person can't skip all that, and just do what he know will be the minimum required to get a worn edge in peak condition.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Click to expand...


Bart First thank you.
May be a power touch up ,as Ralf said is a complete honing for me, but in case that i never use pasted strops or another tricky honing , as you say i pass very fast from another stage to the other. So i believe that the only different is nominal.
Best regards
Emmanuel
Click to expand...




I don't think i successfully got there. I test shaved with it and, while not the least comfortable shave i've had yet, it wasn't all that smooth, nor shaved all that close. No sever bleeders or burn, so that's progress i think. I may have gauged it wrong. it was more of a hh2.5 ish. before that it passed the AHT with flying colors. It was rather odd.

On my best razor so far, the one with even bevels and such, any of the hairs i normally use "snip" or "pop" (not violin) with little effort. meaning the HHT behaves the same with the razor angled in any which way, and is equally nice with the root over the edge, or opposite.

This razor, though still less keen at the toe, was also reluctant to pop hanging hairs. when it did, i suppose it was close to a 3, but it more often wanted to bisect hairs, or strip them. i know it wasn't a change in my hair source, cause i used the same hair on the other razor first then this one.

i'm thinking perhaps i should go back and try to re-finish. i'm still concerned about the toe, i'm pretty sure i'm keeping good pressure during x-strokes, and perhaps i'm loosing the toe when i switch to edge-trailing strokes on a thin slurry. Or maybe it's my stropping...


I keep watching your BBW video Bart. You're FAST! i'm thinking about trying the CrOx, as i have some powder here. i'm not sure about the quality of it though, as i got it free from a jeweler, but it may be worth a try... i'm just reluctant because i feel like i shouldn't have to.

If all else fails, i'll try and increase the keenness on my spyderco ultra fine, but i haven't touched it because i'm reluctant to see whether or not i loose the smooth and forgiving edge from the BBW.


Thanks all!
 
Please beware that we make a difference between the HHT, immediately off the hone, and the HHT after a good stropping.
I'm not sure if your readings speak about the result off the hone, or after stropping.
At any rate, you need to eventually correlate your hair source to the quality of your shaves, but on average, HHT-3 is something to aim for, testing immediately off the hone. After stropping it should be HHT-4.

Maybe you could try so local bevel work to bring the tip up to the same level as the rest of the edge, and then apply a layer of tape and perform the taped steps of the procedure we used for the BBW-study. That should give you the desired results.

Please don't pay any attention to my speed of honing. I started out real slow. Precision is much more important than speed.
You won't need CrO on top of the BBW. It was just a gimmick. It works, but it won't make a keener of smoother edge than what you can get with the "Uniblue" procedure from the BBW-study. Also do note, that I hadn't discovered the virtues of paste-like slurry yet, when I made that video.

Nothing against the Spyderco, but I have never used that hone, so I can't offer any advice on it.

I think you're nearly there.:thumbup:

Bart.
 
Well, i give up with this razor.

post strop it's a HHT3, and i can't shave test with it for a while (need to let my skin heal.)
It's definitely a challenging one.

Also, I don't know if you saw it Bart, but i sent you an email.


gosh i hope this razor shaves well. I've been at it so long my hands are sore.
 
There's one thing that instantly kills all chances on success while honing razors. It's called "frustration". Give it some rest. No one learns how to do this in only a couple of days.
That razor has a good bevel now. You'll get it shaving like a dream later. It's important to enjoy the process.

I'll respond to your e-mail later.

Bart.
 
Bart said:
I took the razor and shaved the whisker dry. The edge said "ploink" and out came a nice chip of the edge. The whisker was gone too. :)
Click to expand...

That gave me quite a chuckle. :D

Indeed, going desperate is surely not the way to learn. Treat it like an exercise, and let go when you're tired. Most important, expect nothing. One day, you will just be surprised, I can promise you that :)

Have you tried adding a layer of tape and setting a microbevel? BTW, I can't tell because of the tape and no tang in the pictures, but the razor looks a bit like a Wapi?

regards,
Matt
 
Bart, Thanks for the information that explains a lot. I did not realize the whisker would be that much harder when dry. I always thought that the wash and lather before shaving was to prevent infection and also make the shave pleasant.
 
mysteryrazor said:
Bart, Thanks for the information that explains a lot. I did not realize the whisker would be that much harder when dry. I always thought that the wash and lather before shaving was to prevent infection and also make the shave pleasant.
Click to expand...

Indeed dry stubble has the same strength as copper wire of the same diameter
Makes you think eh

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Gah!

I think it was the razor.
I took my dovo, and dulled on glass.

Then went with paste and fixed the toe.

Then AHT, then a basic modified uniblue with tape and such.
Off the stone it was a close HHT3, 50/50 on the strop and i got a HHT4. haven't test shaved, but it's definitely better than that other razor with only 50 or so minutes.
 
Well, i shaved today.

Not the best shave i've had. not the worst. no cuts and not a lot of burn. but there was definitely tugging, and took more passes than usual to get acceptably close...

odd. perhaps i should go back and continue finishing the edges on water.
 
For sure the edge is not sharp enough, working it on water may well be the answer, just like a touch up will reclaim a slightly dulling edge, the same goes for an edge that is ever so slightly lacking than keenness coming off the hone.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Well that certainly didn't work.

all i'm getting is a slicing HHT. it semi-grabs the hair and whittles it or peels it. it won't cleanly cut/snap/pop the hair like my control razor.

The number of times i've attempted to take it past that point so many times i could have honed 5 razors by now.
 
I lost track somehow of your exact routine. What you describe is HHT-2. That's nearly there, and give me the kind of razor that shaves smoothly, but not without some pulling sensation. Am I correct that you are attempting some kind of Dilublue method, with no tape being used for the final stage?

If so, here's the order of what I will usually try on a BBW to get the last bit of keenness:

Attempt 1: make the BBW damp and rub with slurry stone for a thin coat of paste-like slurry. Strop the razor for 50 strokes on this slurry. Don't be afraid to use a bit of pressure. Rinse the BBW and the razor well and perform 20 strokes on water. Check with the HHT, and add 20 more. Keep doing this till you find no further improvement. This can be 2, 3 or 4 times.

If you still don't hit HHT-3 ->

Attempt 2: (after trying #1): Moisten the BBW and rub it one or twice with the slurry stone. You only want a purple haze in the water. (Jimmy Hendrix was a big fan of the BBW). Make sets of 30 stropping strokes, check with HHT in between.
Usually either of both works, if the razor was already at HHT 1 or 2, as you said.

Attempt 3: I haven't tried this yet on a BBW, but it works very well on a Coticule, and it doesn't hurt to try.
Make sure the BBW is completely dry. It cannot be damp. Take a shaving stick of hard soap. Rub the surface of the hone lengthwise with the soap. Damp your thumbs, take the stone in both hands and massage the soap in crosswise with your thumbs. The idea is to have a very thin coat of hard soap on the surface of the BBW, a bit like the surface of a waxed car. (This works with candle wax too, but that requires lighter fluid to even out and to remove later)
Once the coat is nice and even and as thin as possible, take the razor and make 30 X-strokes. The first strokes will be a bit awkward, but that's ok. Clean the edge under a hot tap, dry it and check with the HHT. Add 30 strokes more if necessary.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
i'll go back and give that a try.

Currently i'm dulling the edge. getting AHT with sets of 30 halfstrokes. diluting a little and doing 4 sets of halfstrokes. Then tape and a few dilutions. then rinsing and 40 x-strokes on a misty slurry. i wasn't seeing any improvement continuing with the x-strokes - in fact it seemed to be going downhill from the halfstrokes.

i'll go back and persist with the trailing edge strokes and see how it goes i guess.
 
I was about to come on and suggest stropping strokes. This thread inspired me to hone a DA on my nº 49 BBW side. Remembering the OTB procedure, I just decided to finish with stropping strokes. The dry test shave patch went well, and I'm expecting a nice shave. Not being able to really see the slurry change colors is a bit odd after all this time on my coticule... :-/
 
Alright, method one and two got me just a little higher than i already was. after 45/100 (my canvas strop kinda sucks) it was barely a 3. still not good enough for my neck- tugged.

I tried the soap, and surprisingly it had some effect- at first. i went back at it and it backed to a barely 2. whittling the hair- not cutting it. :confused:
slurry dulling without slurry?
 
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