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To harsh

G

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I have mentioned this before . I received a razor a new ti from raspurs. This was a return replacemant. the first shave waas sharp but by gum it was harsh. The razor actauly felt like it was clauking in to my skin. straight away i thought i will rehone this from scratch with dilucot. I emailed raspur and asked how he had finished the razor. he said 0.25 dp followed by ti rasoir on a paddle.Which surprised me as i have shaved of ti and never felt this harsh.

i put marker on the edge and did some light strokes on my la vainette. The marker was removed from the whole cutting edge. I new i was making full contact and there was no convexed edge. probably because he used paddle strop. the next shave after water on coticule was still harsh.i then tryed ti rasoir paste . Still harsh probably more so.I realy new the razor was sharp and did'nt feel the need to do a full rehone. So i tryed the misty slurry for 10 laps and diluted away the slurry and finished with 30 on water. I did'nt expect to much but i have tryed in the past and it does work.

the shave this morning was smooth as butter. No clauking in to my skin. I just carn't beleive the differance a tiny mist of slurry can do and just 10 to 20 laps and then the rest on water.

It still amazes me how somthing so simple can change things so much. the slurry must massage the edge or somthing ( light misty slurry) . You have to be care ful not to use to much slurry , I actauly think i could of shaved of misty slurry. So if your razor is a little harsh and water strokes are not smoothing things out ,give it try .

Gary
 
Banging Gary :)

That's spot on for me, you knew the edge was even, and sharp enough, so you use a very light slurry and water to "Coticulise" the edge, as you know I have done the same sort of thing coming off Crox on Balsa before now.

It's sometimes very surprising how a little something can make a huge difference

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
As an update to this, i just had a situation similar to Gary's.

I never used pastes, sprays or any enhancements other than stropping off a stone. I bought a four sided paddle strop blank weeks ago with thoughts of trying some TI paste, and CromOx.
Gary has been giving me lots of help and advice behind the scenes, and I can't thank him enough for all the help and encouragement he has provided. Gary is first class!

Anyway, I picked up some balsa and glued it to two sides of the paddle. Today, I finally sanded the two sides flat and applied the TI paste. The razor in question was giving great shaves, but the HHT was less than I expected, and I couldn't do much to improve it, so i thought it would be a good test bed for the paddle. So, today I applied the TI paste to the balsa... 10 laps, and check the HHT. 10 more and check the HHT, finally, 10 more, and the HHT was only marginally better than off the coticule.

So, what did I learn??

1. I'm waaaay too hung up on the HHT. I've come to enjoy pulling fine hairs from my head and watching them pop. If a razor doesn't pop hairs as I think it should, no matter how well it shaves, I press on to try to get a better HHT. I'm beginning to think I'm wrong in that regard!


2. 30 laps on TI paste produces a shaving edge waaay too crispy for my face! Just not to my liking, at all. Next time, I'll stop at ten laps, or maybe less, and try it again before I make a decision whether TI paste will be an option for me or not.

3. I didn't like the feel of stropping on balsa with the TI paste. I didn't feel smooth... Too sticky. Maybe balsa is not the correct surface to apply TI paste to?

So, my thanks once again to Gary for all the good advice and helpful info. A terrific Ambassador to the wet-shaving world with tons of knowledge that he's very willing to share. I never would have gotten to this experiment without all Gary's help!

Onward, and upward!
 
Bill i can vouch for this. I have used ti rasoir pate for a long time.m the first time i used it was like this. I was dilucoting with my silver wing on the old method. Time and time again the shave was ok but realy a little ropy. I had the ti paste on a canvas strop. I thought sod it and hit the cotton strop with 20 laps of stropping. I carryed on the shave. i just could not beleive how sharp and smooth the shave was. I was taken back big time.. It was then i realized this stuff was top notch. I read and read that paste shoild belong to a paddle strop . Not a hanging strop as it can round the edge. So i tryed ti rasoir pate on paddle strop. this was the out come , totaly differant . The hht was not as good. the edge was not as sharp. This is why i say hanging strop in can vas or cotton. Number one the meterial takes the paste much nicer. te hanging strop when pulled tight still has a little move mant. enought to sharpen the very cutting edge and create in a way a kind of double bevel. Not quite but if you get me it changes the angle of the bevel. By abrading the very tip. with just 10 laps. i'm not surprised the balsa did'nt work as well. with crox i found the balsa hone to leave a harsher edge . I think paste is better used on a loom strop or hanging strop, or leather on your paddle ( rough or smooth)there is more cushion and some give. You put the ti paste on the back of a hangeing strop , canvas. You will see a massive differnce. I have come to the conclusion that my ti paste is better on cotton hanging strop. why because it just works . The razor from raspur was finished on ti paste on a paddle, it does'nt give as nicer edge . the strop seems to work much better. so i'm glad you tryed the balsa, at least your findings are the same as mine.i found the same with .5 dp a couple of years ago. that worked better on canvas strop. try it on some canvas hanger and let us no how you get on.

gary
 
btw i have a razor that i have honed so many times and they have not responded to hht as well as i liked. the shaves have been fine . infact they have real mellow shaves not the sharpest , but clean comfy shave with a little help from ajusting my technique. no irritation after wards. if all fails and i have afeeling it will shave i test no matter what. You can be quite surprised at the out come. Some of my best shave of come from hht 4/5, some of my harshest shaves have come from 4/5. some of my smoothest shaves have come from a 3/4. I've had razors pass hht beyond and as good as any pasted strop and they have been my most uncomfortable shaves.

i still think and trust that a 3hht will shave no matter what. even a 2. a violin has never performed for me .
gary
 
Gary are you sure that the razor affects your shaves and not other factors like preparation ,soap, beard growing ,skin condition of the previous shave and finally good and bad days.
My question is just a question, certainly not doubt about your findings.Some times i have smoother or less smooth shaves with the same razor and same honing.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
Harshness seems to vary w/ the stropping media that's pasted. From another post:
I thought the #1 reason pastes began to get a bad rap was the use of Balsa, many Newbs were told if you want to try it out, use a piece of Balsa, now don't get me wrong, it does work, but it works too well.. Combine an overly effective medium, and use by Newbs that over apply the product, and overuse the strop, and you get Harsh edges... These same people were also using the pastes in the exact same way as you stated in your wording, using a paste to make up for lacking skills wrongly, and it can lead to harsh edges .. Note that I said wrongly, as there are many people that do not prescribe to our (SRP) way of the hones, we are a very hone based group...Always keep in the back of your mind there is another group that gets to about what we consider a sharp blade (4K level) on hones, then brings it in from there on a loom strop and the older style pastes ie: Dovo Green, Red, Black... Now before you scoff at it I suggest you try it, Bruno mentioned this about the EU guys maybe 3 years ago in a post, I thought to myself "Huh that sounds all wrong" but I tried it out, and guess what... A smooth comfortable shave happened..
For reference, the softer the stropping surface the less the effect of the paste...

Felt
Webbing
Linen
Leather
Balsa
As you move through this list, IMHO you increase the possibility of getting a harsh edge...
 
Emmanuel said:
Gary are you sure that the razor affects your shaves and not other factors like preparation ,soap, beard growing ,skin condition of the previous shave and finally good and bad days.
My question is just a question, certainly not doubt about your findings.Some times i have smoother or less smooth shaves with the same razor and same honing.
Best regards
Emmanuel
Click to expand...

I use the most nicest soaps and prep is very thorough. I should of said the only razors i have had the harsness problem with , is my ti's mainly. This may be due to the new harder a steel. Once you get it just right with the ti they are extremly nice shavers. When i ay harsh its not harsh in the way that the edge is rought , its just that feel of a little to crispy. ralfy shaved with my ti and that felt like it to me . I'm sure ralfy felt what i did, its hard to explain. A rough ege is no good to any one, a crispy feeling or harsh in the manner you either like or not. I dont like that feel i like the more dull buttery feel. My john clarkes is a ultimate shaver. Gives the best edges ad even once i or twice i have produced a crispy edge on that razor , May be i just over did it , i'm not sure how this happens . I even tryed the ti's with 4.5 shaes as i thought may be it will calm down. Stil no calming down. They just feel to overly sharp and catch my skin. So just by a thew laps on slurry and water the razors are loads nicer.

gary
 
pinklather said:
Harshness seems to vary w/ the stropping media that's pasted. From another post:
I thought the #1 reason pastes began to get a bad rap was the use of Balsa, many Newbs were told if you want to try it out, use a piece of Balsa, now don't get me wrong, it does work, but it works too well.. Combine an overly effective medium, and use by Newbs that over apply the product, and overuse the strop, and you get Harsh edges... These same people were also using the pastes in the exact same way as you stated in your wording, using a paste to make up for lacking skills wrongly, and it can lead to harsh edges .. Note that I said wrongly, as there are many people that do not prescribe to our (SRP) way of the hones, we are a very hone based group...Always keep in the back of your mind there is another group that gets to about what we consider a sharp blade (4K level) on hones, then brings it in from there on a loom strop and the older style pastes ie: Dovo Green, Red, Black... Now before you scoff at it I suggest you try it, Bruno mentioned this about the EU guys maybe 3 years ago in a post, I thought to myself "Huh that sounds all wrong" but I tried it out, and guess what... A smooth comfortable shave happened..
For reference, the softer the stropping surface the less the effect of the paste...

Felt
Webbing
Linen
Leather
Balsa
As you move through this list, IMHO you increase the possibility of getting a harsh edge...
Click to expand...

I have shaved of all those items .With balsa you realy don't need many laps . I found five laps to be plenty of balsa 10 at the max. I've used felt with diamond sprays and works much nicer. less is the key with any paste or sprays.

gary
 
Ok Gary .First i would like to continue this issue because i find it very important for us and for the other coticule be members. I understood what you mean exactly ,as you said some edges catch your skin.Now i remember well what my father did after honing just on two razors.( A Kama that's a german and a Devon<rasoir extra garanti> ,that's a french) ,so was puling the edge on his thumpnail ,but not as thumpnail test ,because i asked him many times, he did it just to soothe the edge as was saying .( soothe :i translate the word literally but i am not sure that meets the english concept).
For him the Kama's and Devon's edge was aggressive.
I tried it many times. Even after stroping if you pull the edge on your thumpnail you will found that the HHT does not reduced at all but the edge will be soother surly.
So Gary once you get an aggressive edge ,please try my father way letting me know.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
My friend pinklather i haven't experience on crox nor pastes at all ,because i never use them.Always i am going from coticule directly to strop.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
yes i will do . thank you emanuel.Sooth is a good english word it means taming the edge or soothing as you say makes sense to me.

gary
 
Emmanuel said:
My friend pinklather i haven't experience on crox nor pastes at all ,because i never use them.Always i am going from coticule directly to strop.
Best regards
Emmanuel
Click to expand...

Which type of strop and meterial are you using?

gary
 
garyhaywood said:
Emmanuel said:
My friend pinklather i haven't experience on crox nor pastes at all ,because i never use them.Always i am going from coticule directly to strop.
Best regards
Emmanuel
Click to expand...

Which type of strop and meterial are you using?

gary
Click to expand...


A vintage linen -leather of my gfather heritage and currently my kanayama but i replaced the linen by a pure linen from Neil Miller.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
I've said before I don't really "touch up"... but my FAVORITE way to prehone (or to "confirm" an edge if I just wanna grab a razor) is just what you said. 1-2 dozen on the lightest slurry, then a few dozen on water on my favorite coti. Then either linen and leather or to whatever finisher I please and then linen and leather.
 
I have just received a new TI (C135), and followed the advises of the seller to improve the edge (stropping with CrOx).
The razor was shave ready with the factory edge but after green paste treament it becomes very sharp but also too harsh.
Has somebody tried the Emmanuel's thumbnail trick? how much pressure should be used when pulling the razor on the nail : the weight of the razor or less than the weight?
For the moment I have tried not to strop the razor for some shaves and the edge become smoother

Regards

Laurent
 
Its a tricky one real, i have many ti's and they all came to harsh. i never tryed the nail trick, but i'd say just one light drag, then strop on leather. what is your cro.ox applyed to? try 50 las on very tiny slury then 50 laps on water. i ended up honing mine again, ti use sharpening diamond paste. so pop some marker on the edge, just to make sure your making good contact on the hone, i tryed coti water, and it made no differance , so i ended up surry to water
 
Thanks Gary,

My Crox was applied on balsa. My TI came with a smooth factory edge but I thought it could be keener. So I used CrOx

I'm not confident enough in my skillness to try to tame the TI edge with my coticule that's why I was interested in the nail trick.

Regards

Laurent
 
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