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who said coticule prices are getting high?
- Thread starter geruchtemoaker
- Start Date
Bart
Well-Known Member
It has never been plausible. But you have to understand that Coticules were once mainly used for what many now call "bevel setting". Once a thin slurry starts running up the bevel well, the work on the Coticule is done and the edge is further refined on a pasted strop. This method is still successfully used and taught in Belgium (and probably in other countries).Gunner777 said:
But they all can be used as finishers as well, as long as one manages to bridge the keenness gap between the slurry level and what is required for successful finishing. For that we had to (re)?-invent Dilucot and Unicot and it can also be done with the aid of a synthetic go-between hone, or even with a BBW.
But someone who attempts to shave after the slurry stage, or jumps straight to water without any intermediate step, will indeed find that only a very small minority of Coticules can deliver a reasonable shave. But with the right approach, that observation becomes irrelevant.
Kind regards,
Bart.
Well I guess it's time to take a hit with my opinion because I know it's coming.I read the link provided about the conversation with Sham.I know it's an unpopular opinion but I seldom get a completely satisfying shaving edge directly from a Coticule. My normal procedure is to use the coticule for everything up to getting that final sharp very best shaving edge. In fact I have another Escher on the way right now to get that last final edge. I do love using my Coticules so don't get me wrong on that but there are some limitations.
As far as Sham is concerned since it was brought up in the link he's a very good friend and knows more about honing than most people I've ever known. He's also a very good guy that will go out of his way to help anyone.One last thing why isn't it alright to supplement your income by selling razors?
As far as Sham is concerned since it was brought up in the link he's a very good friend and knows more about honing than most people I've ever known. He's also a very good guy that will go out of his way to help anyone.One last thing why isn't it alright to supplement your income by selling razors?
Paul
Well-Known Member
Gunner777 said:
There's not a thing in the world wrong with your opinion, and you don't need to worry. Here's the thing, I sent Sham a razor I honed, and he told me that it was literally the only razor that he's ever had sent to him that he felt was satisfactory. Coticules meet my standards, and I have high standards. That's what's frustrating. Instead of blaming a lack of understanding and mastery for unsatisfactory results, the stones get blamed. These require a totally different approach... They just do. If you try to use it exactly the same way as other stones, it will not live up to our standards. It's just the way it is.
Sham is a very helpful guy, and I appreciate all his help and advice that was given to the straight razor community. However, he's the kind of guy who will tell you that you're stropping wrong (even if it works really well for you and your edge maintenance is great) because your thumb isn't the exact way he thinks it should be... And, that's ok. It's just who he is. We've shared numerous PMs, and emails, and I'm not saying anything here that I didn't say to him privately, for what it's worth.
No comment on the selling razors bit... I really suggest that we not talk about him any more. He's a really good guy, and the 3 out of 136 is a bit of a running joke, but he is a really good guy...
I appreciate that. When I read the entire thread there were some cheap shots flying and with Sham being as good a friend as he has been to me I felt I had to make that friendship and respect clear so that if it isn't acceptable---well you get the idea. We all have different methods and that being the case nobody should be upset because a Coti isn't a do all for them or they like to mix and match like I do.
I want to be 100% honest here and I'm not put off, angry or anything but there seems to be some pretty heated conversations in the short time I've been here---My question is why?
I want to be 100% honest here and I'm not put off, angry or anything but there seems to be some pretty heated conversations in the short time I've been here---My question is why?
Paul
Well-Known Member
Gunner777 said:
Well, the same reason every forum has heated conversations. There are a lot of people who have been here for a long time, and know each other well, and then there are others who join in and don't have the rapport with the rest of the group, and it takes time to get that feel. Add the fact that there's anonymity on the internet which leads to the obvious propensity to say to others things you wouldn't say in their company. I will say that most of us here will say exactly the same thing on here that we would say on the internet, that does play a part. The "cheap shots" were most likely the result of your perspective as his friend as well as not knowing the extensive history of statements made (on both sides of that issue).
I will say that this site differs significantly because Bart and the other associates value free speech more than other forums. Free speech isn't always warm and cuddly... However, we respect each other. When we disagree, we say what we need to say, and it gets settled. The information is much more important than the source or the people. Bart and I have had heated words before, but I consider him a dear friend. We all have disagreements at times, but we try to not be disagreeable as a rule... Remember the best friend in grade school who only became that after you beat each other mercilessly? This is kind of the same thing. We have an opportunity to hash things out, and then we move forward with a common purpose... That's the best I answer I have
Bart
Well-Known Member
This is a great conversation.
It's just shaving, which is a trivial activity by part of the males on this planet. Never a big deal.
What we've set up here, is a forum where everyone is expected to speak frankly, in a respectful tone. On SRP (to name an example that I know well) everyone seems to pre-occupied with reputation. If, for example, a newbie wonders whether the razor he bought in the classifieds came sharp enough, because he struggles having a good shave with it, it's almost funny how everybody pussyfoots around the hot potato. The most exotic possibilities why the razor may not shave well are offered, except for the name of the one who honed it and the possibility that he might have done a lousy job.
On here, we promote doing things differently. Sham thinks Unicot and Dilucot are nonsensical methods, and he has every right to come here and make that statement. The discussion was held with arguments. He made his points and was allowed to clarify them, other people, including myself made their points as well. Everyone who can read, can make up his own mind about it. Discussions are not about winning or loosing, but about learning something.
Another aspect of Coticule.be's cafereria, is that I personally spend a lot of time battling against gear fetishism. It is typical for the average internet forum about any random topic to be infested with gear fetishism. The reason is that it are usually the most enthusiast users that type the majority of posts. These enthusiasts often have a lot of gear. And they tell their wives that they couldn't do without a single piece. And then they get online, where they like to submerge in a world where they reassert another's hoarding disorders, and fill entire servers with unconfirmed statements about the performance of special wound guitar strings, oxigen-free speaker cable, cryogenically treated knife steel, etc...
There is no shortage of forums on the internet, where you can do just that. When you come here, expect to be met with healthy skepticism concerning whatever you (or I) come up with. We have a research section, where we actively try to confirm certain claims and premises. And I guarantee you that nothing goes in the tutorials offered on Coticule.be, that wasn't first thoroughly trued to have practical and repeatable outcome.
Kind regards,
Bart.
It's just shaving, which is a trivial activity by part of the males on this planet. Never a big deal.
What we've set up here, is a forum where everyone is expected to speak frankly, in a respectful tone. On SRP (to name an example that I know well) everyone seems to pre-occupied with reputation. If, for example, a newbie wonders whether the razor he bought in the classifieds came sharp enough, because he struggles having a good shave with it, it's almost funny how everybody pussyfoots around the hot potato. The most exotic possibilities why the razor may not shave well are offered, except for the name of the one who honed it and the possibility that he might have done a lousy job.
On here, we promote doing things differently. Sham thinks Unicot and Dilucot are nonsensical methods, and he has every right to come here and make that statement. The discussion was held with arguments. He made his points and was allowed to clarify them, other people, including myself made their points as well. Everyone who can read, can make up his own mind about it. Discussions are not about winning or loosing, but about learning something.
Another aspect of Coticule.be's cafereria, is that I personally spend a lot of time battling against gear fetishism. It is typical for the average internet forum about any random topic to be infested with gear fetishism. The reason is that it are usually the most enthusiast users that type the majority of posts. These enthusiasts often have a lot of gear. And they tell their wives that they couldn't do without a single piece. And then they get online, where they like to submerge in a world where they reassert another's hoarding disorders, and fill entire servers with unconfirmed statements about the performance of special wound guitar strings, oxigen-free speaker cable, cryogenically treated knife steel, etc...
There is no shortage of forums on the internet, where you can do just that. When you come here, expect to be met with healthy skepticism concerning whatever you (or I) come up with. We have a research section, where we actively try to confirm certain claims and premises. And I guarantee you that nothing goes in the tutorials offered on Coticule.be, that wasn't first thoroughly trued to have practical and repeatable outcome.
Kind regards,
Bart.
:thumbup:
The above post really lays out what I really like about this forum. Yeah, I have suffered through the acquisition phase a little bit, but I am starting to sell stuff that I don't really think I want to keep.
On topic with the thread:
I read on The Superior Shave's coticule page that prices on coticules will be going high in the next few months. I am not sure if this true or not though.
"Fair warning; in the next few months, coticule prices will spike sharply and stay there. Expressed as percentages of cash in vs cash out (not what a stone's worth according to some piece of paper, but what YOU can actually resell it for), coticules really are a better investment than diamonds. It has been fun seeing many pass by, but due to scarcity that's about to severely dwindle."
http://thesuperiorshave.com/Coticules.html
The above post really lays out what I really like about this forum. Yeah, I have suffered through the acquisition phase a little bit, but I am starting to sell stuff that I don't really think I want to keep.
On topic with the thread:
I read on The Superior Shave's coticule page that prices on coticules will be going high in the next few months. I am not sure if this true or not though.
"Fair warning; in the next few months, coticule prices will spike sharply and stay there. Expressed as percentages of cash in vs cash out (not what a stone's worth according to some piece of paper, but what YOU can actually resell it for), coticules really are a better investment than diamonds. It has been fun seeing many pass by, but due to scarcity that's about to severely dwindle."
http://thesuperiorshave.com/Coticules.html
Bart
Well-Known Member
altshaver said:
We're all human my friend. Gatherers by evolutionary design...
It's true. This thread contains more information.altshaver said:
Kind regards,
Bart.
danjared
Well-Known Member
I have a vintage coticule that I think is "better" than an Ardennes one... only in that it has a cool wooden box and a frickin thick coti layer (natural combo). But I'm pretty sure that Sham would place among the 134 out of 136 that are "bad" because of its slurry dulling. But it's also very fast!
Well, you can´t make a forum without any fetishism, can you? I mean, most of us are kind of coticule-fetishists, aren´t we? How many of us do really have only one stone and don´t think about buying another one
?
Now, because we are talking about money and I don´t want to open a new thread for this: When exactly will the prices rise and will there be a list to look at?
Regards, Tok
?Now, because we are talking about money and I don´t want to open a new thread for this: When exactly will the prices rise and will there be a list to look at?
Regards, Tok
G
Guest
I think a look at the definition of fetishism will clear this misunderstanding up fairly quickly:
Therefore, I think that good forums are driven by curiosity aka a drive to research, whereas fetishists are best locked up in a darkroom.
Oh, and just for the record, I own exactly one hone, and do not intend to branch out, diversify, or succumb to RAD. Maybe that's because mental conditions are frowned upon in my social environment. But to each their own.
Regards,
Robin
Now then. I have a few razors. I want to keep them in a serviceable state. I was led to believe that I needed kit worth several hundreds of USD (remember the Shapton insanity? or the Naniwa craze?) in order to obtain results almost-as-good-as those produced by the fabled honemeisters. I was lucky, because I met Bart. The simplicity of the process piqued my curiosity.
Therefore, I think that good forums are driven by curiosity aka a drive to research, whereas fetishists are best locked up in a darkroom.
Oh, and just for the record, I own exactly one hone, and do not intend to branch out, diversify, or succumb to RAD. Maybe that's because mental conditions are frowned upon in my social environment. But to each their own.
Regards,
Robin