Your favourite coticule layer

[Bart]

It amazes me how people, of whom many had formal training in fields of science or engineering, were so readily prepared to jettison all principles of objectivity, for the sake of justifying purchases, or for the sake of justifying the time spent with a somewhat insignificant hobby.

Is that what's happening on razor forums? sheesh! I thought the acquisition disorder talk was just self-deprecating humor - you know, as a fun way to explain to non shaving nerds why someone is collecting shaving stuff. Do people really think that finding justification for toy-collecting requires the surrender of objectivity?

By the way I enjoyed reading your post even though it was long - and here's a smiley for Robin's sake

Lee, I certainly won't generalize my statements for all people posting on forums. But I am convinced that these self-justification mechanisms are present on most gear oriented Internet forums, whether they concern woodworking tools, kitchen utensils, or a particular chunk of rock with abrasive properties. If that disposition was merely a matter of self-deprecating humor, why would people with the nerve to say that only one hone suffices, be outcast? Or why would the members of such forums cause massive price increases by all wanting the particular piece of gear they are momentarily hyping. Filharmonicas hardly got any attentiion while the company was still inproduction. Now they are hyped to ludicrous price points. The Charnley Forest? Indubitably a highly capable and excellent hone. Once obtainable from EBay for a couple of bucks. People who spend the money they fetch nowadays, don't enjoy the message that a Chinese "12k" can do the same job, or a smallish Coticule, or a large BBW, all for significantly less money.
The AD promotion on Internet fora needs to be explained by a desire to institutionalize behavior. The larger the group becomes that openly adheres to a certain behavior, the more the members of that group can see their initial disorderly behavior rendered into the norm. And so, what was formerly realistic and modest, now becomes an aberration, and what was once was considered completely over the top, has now become the norm. Internet forums are the perfect hatch for that kind of reverse normalization. Sooner or later someone will make a sociological case study of it. I think many spouses don't know about their husband's spending habits on shaving gear, for the reason that they are not part of the reversed normalization. They might be part of a reversed normalization concerning the acquisition of shoes, though. I am not saying that I think this is all harmful human behavior. But I reserve the right to not go along. and I acknowledge that not everyone frequenting a forum with high gear fetishism is going to be affected by it, while they still might be offended by someone criticizing "their" forum. I don't deny that these tendencies are present on all forums, including this one. But they are not all moderated the same. Long live diversity!

Best regards,
Bart.

Kind regards,

 

[DJKELLY]

i wished i had got just one coticule and two razors. I would of saved a fortune.

gary

Maybe true, Gaz, but you would not have become one of the world's foremost authorities on straight razor shaving and sharpening. Who better to have a passion like yours than one in your profession. Do your kids really need to go to college on your dime (shilling) anyway.

It is not just shaving and sharpening, it is the thrill of learning. When I lose that, I will be out of here.

 

[hoglahoo]

If that disposition was merely a matter of self-deprecating humor, why would people with the nerve to say that only one hone suffices, be outcast?

I don't see people being outcast because they say one hone suffices anymore than I see people being outcast because they say many hones are necessary. I'll admit the possibility that it is so incredulous to me that I wouldn't believe it if I saw it. People are usually outcast because they didn't find a way to fit in, or because they clashed with the powers that be over personal spats or details that the general membership doesn't care about. If I saw something like "Ooo, the might AD has been maligned! crucify him (or her)!" then I'd admit I am wrong

Or why would the members of such forums cause massive price increases by all wanting the particular piece of gear they are momentarily hyping.

There are many reasons for that; ADs may be one of the reasons, but a suspension of objectivity is going to be the result of someone who doesn't know what they are doing looking for what someone else said is a good piece of gear than it is the result of someone telling themselves they need a reason to spend a lot of money to get their fix

The AD promotion...

is only in the mind. Sure, vendors want to sell more stuff, but the only promotion I see that comes close to AD promotion is in the kinds of threads where people like to show off their new stuff to each other. The reverse normalization you mentioned is prevalent among people who are prone to it, rather than a forced social phenomenon of necessity. Whether I feel that way because I subconsciously need to... nah, I doubt it

eh... you're probably right - something smells overcomplicated and construed though. maybe I need to take some time off from the troll-normalization world I've built for myself

 

[garyhaywood]

i wished i had got just one coticule and two razors. I would of saved a fortune.

gary

Maybe true, Gaz, but you would not have become one of the world's foremost authorities on straight razor shaving and sharpening. Who better to have a passion like yours than one in your profession. Do your kids really need to go to college on your dime (shilling) anyway.

It is not just shaving and sharpening, it is the thrill of learning. When I lose that, I will be out of here.

Good words dennis very true. I have enjoyed every thing i have found via razor forums especialy this one . I have found coticules very interesting. The differant layer s tempted me to try them. once differant vain s or layers became aparant it made coticules even more interesting. I have tryed several. I have never gotten a bad shave from any layer. I have had differant levels of hht but thats about all . The shaves have always been good enough for me.There has been the absalute magical shaves. Also, and with out a shadow of dout the most comfortable shaves i ever had. Repeating that level is not easy but i get very close, as in the early days i was never getting any where i do now. Nice to try differant coticules because they all feel differant in use. I have my favourites in that sense of away. The feel of the hone on water has to be nice for me. The sound plus the abrassion etc, i think you guys no what i mean.The les lat is so differant in that way, the magnetic feel is unbeatable . so i always favour a coticule that feels good to me, and i enjoy the feed back i get from the coticule with slurry and water. I do have several paste, plus naniwas and my very first hone which was the norton 4k/8k, i've enjoyed the journey.I have tryed several strops. my favourite is kanayama followed by tony millers and the dovos.

if i had to choose limited sharpening gear it would be my les lat, thury,600 dmt, ti rasoir paste, crox balsa and my kanayama strop plus tm linen.

My two razors would be my john clarkes and my double duck. i'd have to keep one of my TI'S which would be my crown wing. That would be my third.

oh and my travel paddle

cheers gary

 

[Bart]

People are usually outcast because they didn't find a way to fit in, or because they clashed with the powers that be over personal spats or details that the general membership doesn't care about. If I saw something like "Ooo, the might AD has been maligned! crucify him (or her)!" then I'd admit I am wrong
(...)

eh... you're probably right - something smells overcomplicated and construed though. maybe I need to take some time off from the troll-normalization world I've built for myself

I'm not going turn this into a discussion about the forum you moderate and wish to defend. I wished to discuss sociological tendencies that are present as well on this forum as on the one you are defending. It just served as a - from my viewpoint - very clear example of the point I was trying to make. I won't revisit that discussion. If you google "Bart SRP site:www.Coticule.be"', no doubt you'll find enough posts by me voicing my opinion in that discussion. There is nothing to add there. If I change my opinion I will let you know.

My goal was to point out the social mechanisms that lead to gear fetishism and the reinforcement thereof, and plea to avoid these pitfalls on this forum. When I spoke about social mechanisms, I was not implying these are based on some kind of orchestrated conspiracy. Social mechanisms are forces within a group of people that eventually lead to a set of norms. These norms, and how one can manage to adhere to them is what defines whether someone can "find a way to fit in" and avoid "clashes with the powers that be", to quote to ideas you coined.
Is it a surprise that being such a misfit myself, I opposes the social dynamics that caused it? This is pure self-preservation. Yikes!

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[hoglahoo]

Is it a surprise that being such a misfit myself, I opposes the social dynamics that caused it?

No, it's not a surprise, I just wondered whether that was influencing your personal opinion of the AD epidemic. It looks to me like we got each other wrong, so I'll go back to browsing and maybe checkout the search you suggested

- Lee

 

[tat2Ralfy]

So Gary I take it you and the balsa have now bonded

 

[DJKELLY]

So Gary I take it you and the balsa have now bonded

I never liked mine, Dr., because it had a grainy feeling. That is until I tried to remove the CrOx with a wet terrycloth towel so I could apply the new CBN spray. I applied it and dried it with a hair dryer and the surface is as smooth as butter. I am sure it is because of the towel treatment that it is better. I wish I had known how to break it in earlier.

I guess I will start calling it a hone in your honor. It sure works.

 

[Emmanuel]

Gary I agree I thing that we are exaggerated and consumers, me included.My gfather and my father
have pased their life ,the first one with one razor and one coticule plus a strop and the second one with one razor and one belgian more.I am continuing to use these razors so far.I believe that one razor is capable to shave three generations..:sleep:
Best regards
Emmanuel

 

[garyhaywood]

So Gary I take it you and the balsa have now bonded

My crox balsa is one that ray made for me . well he was selling them on srp along time ago. i never actauly used it much. Untill the other day.btw the feel is soft like velvet and you don't need many laps . Plus as you no you can use the coticule after. i did 10 laps on my bio paste followed by just 5 laps on crox nbalsa and i mean 5 short feather like laps . Now the edge was smooth as candy. i can see it coming in very handy when needed. this is a very cheap and efective hone. i tested two razor of it and the edges were fine.

gary

 

[Emmanuel]

Denny Bart is more easy to me because is playing with greek words like :fetishism.sociological,mechanisms,orchestrated,ideas,dynamics.These is from this thread.
could you play with this word's homogeneity please?
Bart do you speak greek?
Rgds
Emmanuel

 

[Bart]

Bart do you speak greek?

No, but I studied Latin.
And I don't speak English natively, so I don't use as much wordplay as Dennis' colorful English.

Valete,
Bartolomeus.

 

[squeezyjohn]

A lot of what has been said by Bart and others here rings very true with me! Believe me - it's not just razors with me, that's a fairly new one, but Swedish Snus tobacco, a good real Absinthe, folk music and diatonic button accordions have all found me out of my depth with people from all over the world on internet fora.

Comparing it with other fora I think this place has a great level headedness, considering it's a specialist subject and most of the people don't know anyone in "real life" that shares this passion. Things can often get out of hand when you only have the written word on a screen. I think the message of one coticule will do got through to me very well (thanks Bart - I got 2!).

All this talk of acquisition disorder is a pure symptom of western excess and luxury. We won't have to worry about that in a few years - but at least we'll have our razors, coticules and the skill to use them when we can't afford another set of Gillette cartridges

Cheers

Squeezy

 

[Emmanuel]

Duo magnum radices Hellene et Latine.
Valete
Emmanueleus

 

[jeness]

It is not a coincidence that I asked for your favourite layer, and not the best I know that "best" doesn't exist, I was only interested which layers do the members here like the most. I was trying to avoid this kind of discussion, because everyone has his own opinions on it, but I failed :

Something like: I like my 40x175 La dressante the most, because I like the feel/feedback/sound/speed/edge/anything of it. Its this easy

 

[Paul]

The BEST strata is La Petite Blanche... B)

HatePlace.com - The Truth About Coticules... as I see it

 

[Harvitz81]

All my coticules get the job done and honestly I would not be able to tell the difference in edges given a blind test. My favorite though in terms of feedback is my newly acquired La Grosse Jaune Bout. Just feels good under a razor with my Les Latneuses taking up second place.

Hopefully I'll do what I've done with my other hones and eventually reduce to just one or 2 that work best for me. I'm managed to do this with my other finishers and eventually that will probably happen with my coticules as well.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

HatePlace.com - The Truth About Coticules... as I see it

"Recently, there have been several guys developing one stone honing techniques"

Is that the one stone honing technique were they use two stones?

As said, this thread is not about what is the BEST Coticule layer, or indeed whether Coticules are better than anything else, I dont believe there is a single member here that ever said Coticules are better than anything else?

This thread is about our favorites layers, and what makes them so.

Regards
Ralfson (dr)

 

[garyhaywood]

HatePlace.com - The Truth About Coticules... as I see it

"Recently, there have been several guys developing one stone honing techniques"

Is that the one stone honing technique were they use two stones?

As said, this thread is not about what is the BEST Coticule layer, or indeed whether Coticules are better than anything else, I dont believe there is a single member here that ever said Coticules are better than anything else?

This thread is about our favorites layers, and what makes them so.

Regards
Ralfson (dr)

yes and the coticule is the only one stone that you need to pritty much a full hone from bevel set to finishing. except large damage or bevel rebuild. In general the whole point of a coticule for me was to learn to hone with one stone as i liked that idea. Now i can do just that.

gary

 

[Paul]

HatePlace.com - The Truth About Coticules... as I see it

"Recently, there have been several guys developing one stone honing techniques"

Is that the one stone honing technique were they use two stones?

As said, this thread is not about what is the BEST Coticule layer, or indeed whether Coticules are better than anything else, I dont believe there is a single member here that ever said Coticules are better than anything else?

This thread is about our favorites layers, and what makes them so.

Regards
Ralfson (dr)

I said that (BEST) in Jest, Ralfy. I was confident that everyone would get that after reading my blog entry saying that there's no magic and I had no idea why my favorite was LPB. Sorry for the confusion

We also both know (I assume) that a dilu-"whatever stone you want to take" works without the second stone to set a bevel (last night I did it on a Barbers Hone). Those videos demonstrate using another stone to set the bevel just as we would all do on a razor that would take 10+ minutes to set, so I don't have a problem with it... I can understand your flippant attitude, especially when considering who's developing those techniques, though.

But, since you brought up that part not proclaiming them better than anything else, let's discuss that. I agree with you, but you have to recognize that the fact there's a whole site dedicated to them and there so much hype and hyperbole around them, some who don't read every single post here assume that we are saying they are the best or at least think they are.

You need to understand something about me: I HATE (not being sarcastic, funny, jesting... at all) hyperbole, and I run away from products where there's too much hyperbole around. So, one of the things that drew me to coticules was the very unassuming stone doing everything well, and the fact that it wasn't being hyped. Now, there's a lot of attention brought to them, and a lot of drama. I'm not getting into that, but I'm not going to hype my preferences as "the" anything because it's not my style. I'm supporting anything that brings a minimalist/skill based solution in lieu of a full set of synthetics. I don't care the source of the information.

So, the point of the blog entry was two fold: 1) to make a point that no one means coticules are really "better" than another system just because that's their preference, and 2) they are not magical... Albeit there are some who are using "magical" to describe their shaving edge.

As said, last night's barber hone experiment was very positive, but that doesn't mean I'm hyping that as the best solution. I've gotten great results on every system I've tried. I stick with the coticule because I enjoy the process.