ShavingUniverse.com
Register a free account now!
If you are registered, you get access to the members only section, can participate in the buy & sell second hand forum and last but not least you can reserve your preferred username before someone else takes it.
Ahhh yes..Coti ordered..
- Thread starter torbenbp
- Start Date
: )
torbenbp
Well-Known Member
Sir Bart
4-5 months ago I bought my first strait on Ebay and have used that one and others since.
Decided to use it at _every_ shave and not giveup...So if it didnt work out one day..well just too bad! And there has been quite a few times where my face looked like it had been attacked by a wild cat.That forced me to learn how to straight razor shave relatively fast;-)
But I do not consider them a "real" shave as several hones were involved,and I didnt like the kind of edge they created.
A real shave is:
A razor in good condition.
A coticule
A leather belt
Creame or soap
And nothing else..this is the kind of zen I love. It`s brings peace at mind,the thoughts wonder and time just dissapears. So yesterday I sat down,took a good long look at all the gear I`ve collected and put them away. All thats not stored away is a Naniwa 3k and the beloved coticule.
This forces me to refine the use of the coticule and learn to get the most out of it.
And no..If one follows your detailed honing descriptions it isnt that hard to do.
Patience is essential ;-) and you cant buy that
And now...I will _not_ ask how the Tally Ho is comming along. In fact I`m not the least bit corious...nope..no I really wont ask.
Kind regards
Torben
4-5 months ago I bought my first strait on Ebay and have used that one and others since.
Decided to use it at _every_ shave and not giveup...So if it didnt work out one day..well just too bad! And there has been quite a few times where my face looked like it had been attacked by a wild cat.That forced me to learn how to straight razor shave relatively fast;-)
But I do not consider them a "real" shave as several hones were involved,and I didnt like the kind of edge they created.
A real shave is:
A razor in good condition.
A coticule
A leather belt
Creame or soap
And nothing else..this is the kind of zen I love. It`s brings peace at mind,the thoughts wonder and time just dissapears. So yesterday I sat down,took a good long look at all the gear I`ve collected and put them away. All thats not stored away is a Naniwa 3k and the beloved coticule.
This forces me to refine the use of the coticule and learn to get the most out of it.
And no..If one follows your detailed honing descriptions it isnt that hard to do.
Patience is essential ;-) and you cant buy that
And now...I will _not_ ask how the Tally Ho is comming along. In fact I`m not the least bit corious...nope..no I really wont ask.
Kind regards
Torben
Bart
Well-Known Member
Well, you do deserve some pictures, though I haven't had time this week to work any further on the Tally-ho.
Here's the current status:
The razor is now a minimally hollowed "wedge". It's polished to a high gloss, yet not a mirror. (I tried to make the pictures show the type of polish accurately). There are only a few local remnants of the original bevel. I still need to create a new bevel, probably with 2 layers of tape (I've yet to measure the blade and calculate the angles).
I have a very busy schedule this weekend, but I still hope to finish the job.
Kind regards,
Bart.
Now for the pictures (let's just hope you don't burst into tears):
Here's the current status:
The razor is now a minimally hollowed "wedge". It's polished to a high gloss, yet not a mirror. (I tried to make the pictures show the type of polish accurately). There are only a few local remnants of the original bevel. I still need to create a new bevel, probably with 2 layers of tape (I've yet to measure the blade and calculate the angles).
I have a very busy schedule this weekend, but I still hope to finish the job.
Kind regards,
Bart.
Now for the pictures (let's just hope you don't burst into tears):
torbenbp
Well-Known Member
Oh that would be tears of joy Sir Bart:thumbup: :thumbup:
Please do _not_ take time away from your family to work on the razor.. ! It has been waiting for almost to centuries and will surely survive another week or two. No hurry my friend..take your time.
And I didnt ask...nope..I didnt.. You got that completely wrong..Right,yes you did
Thanks Bart
regards
Torben
Please do _not_ take time away from your family to work on the razor.. ! It has been waiting for almost to centuries and will surely survive another week or two. No hurry my friend..take your time.
And I didnt ask...nope..I didnt.. You got that completely wrong..Right,yes you did
Thanks Bart
regards
Torben
torbenbp
Well-Known Member
Sir Bart ...I was thinking - and that doesnt happend very often- that it could be interresting with a section with "members gear" ?
I think some of the gents at this excellent site, not only like razors and shaving, but also all those small and larger pieces of tools,gadgets,pins and other mischelaneous stuff required for maintaining and restoring straight razors...?
So here is the idea:
A section with members gear..Perhaps just a list of different tools,razors in use and razors under restore.. but also a few pictures. I am aware that pictures will take up precious space on the server... At least I for one would like to see what you gents have in store
Hope I made myself clear...gotta get used to writing in english again...
regards to all of you gents and have a nice weekend.
I think some of the gents at this excellent site, not only like razors and shaving, but also all those small and larger pieces of tools,gadgets,pins and other mischelaneous stuff required for maintaining and restoring straight razors...?
So here is the idea:
A section with members gear..Perhaps just a list of different tools,razors in use and razors under restore.. but also a few pictures. I am aware that pictures will take up precious space on the server... At least I for one would like to see what you gents have in store
Hope I made myself clear...gotta get used to writing in english again...
regards to all of you gents and have a nice weekend.
Bart
Well-Known Member
Here's an update on the Tally-Ho. I've cut a bevel an honed it up. I'm not entirely pleased. The razor shaves fine, optimal amount of tape would be one razor, but I used 3. That gives a still acceptable bevel angle of slightly over 19 degrees. In the middle of the blade the bevel is nice and narrow. But at the toe and heel the bevel is much wider. I've given it some thought, and have discovered that the reason is the combination of my 40mm wide grinding wheel and that curved spine. I stopped grinding when further steel removal would have started to reduce the width of the blade. I've hit that limit at the middle part of the blade and with a straight spine, I would have hit it along the entire blade. But with that curved spine, there was still margin at the toe and heel. A margin of steel I cannot remove with my wide grinding wheel, without reducing the width of the razor at its middle part. It didn't immediately show, because there was no bevel to make it obvious. With the bevel now in place, it is very obvious.
I might put it back on the Tormek, to do some additional work on the edge of the grinding wheel. But not without Torben's formal permission. With the blade flat on the wheel there was little risk for uneven results. But on the edge of the wheel, there's a significant risk to ruin the razor beyond any repair. I have no tried the regrind on the edge of the wheel before.
In the next post, I'll share a picture of the blade in it's current state. The blade is not cleaned up, there's traces of tape glue left, etc. I didn't bother with making it presentable, if I'm going to do more grinding after all. It's your call, Torben. The razor shaves as is, but I wouldn't mind working on it a bit further.
Best regards,
Bart.
I might put it back on the Tormek, to do some additional work on the edge of the grinding wheel. But not without Torben's formal permission. With the blade flat on the wheel there was little risk for uneven results. But on the edge of the wheel, there's a significant risk to ruin the razor beyond any repair. I have no tried the regrind on the edge of the wheel before.
In the next post, I'll share a picture of the blade in it's current state. The blade is not cleaned up, there's traces of tape glue left, etc. I didn't bother with making it presentable, if I'm going to do more grinding after all. It's your call, Torben. The razor shaves as is, but I wouldn't mind working on it a bit further.
Best regards,
Bart.
torbenbp
Well-Known Member
Sir Bart ...If you think it`s possible,you are free to go ahead. And please take all the time you need. It is quite a job you have taken uppon yourself Sir Bart :thumbup: And thank you for taking you time doing this! That is indeed the spirit of this place...
Regards
Ohhh by the way...Would it be very unconviniet for you to send the 2 DA`s? Know the agreement was to send them all together.....
Regards
Ohhh by the way...Would it be very unconviniet for you to send the 2 DA`s? Know the agreement was to send them all together.....
torbenbp
Well-Known Member
Thank you Sir Bart.Will be looking forward to getting the W&B home again _and_ to try out a razor sharpend by an expert:thumbup:
Btw you dont have to hone the DA`s...It would be good training to hone them myself.
It clear to see on your pictures that the Tally Ho still has some issues... The cure is up to you Sir Bart and no hard feelings if it doesnt work out!
Regards
Btw you dont have to hone the DA`s...It would be good training to hone them myself.
It clear to see on your pictures that the Tally Ho still has some issues... The cure is up to you Sir Bart and no hard feelings if it doesnt work out!
Regards
Bart
Well-Known Member
It's a 200mm wheel, 40mm wide. It's the width that causes the problem. If I put the blade flat on the wheel, I can't hollow the heel any further, without removing material of the middle part. But the middle part is already fully hollowed, so it starts to loose width if I go any further. It would help if I could follow the curve of the spine, but the wheel is to broad to do that. Unless I work on the side of the wheel.
But I might have other options. I've more tools than just a Tormek.
All suggestions are welcome though.
Thanks Smythe,
Bart.
But I might have other options. I've more tools than just a Tormek.
All suggestions are welcome though.
Thanks Smythe,
Bart.
Smythe
Well-Known Member
Yes, you got it, you will have to work the side of the wheel for the heel... but only for the heel.
You start at one the side of the wheel.
Have the wheel spinning away from you and the razor edge pointing away from you (grinding away from the edge, not into the edge), and start with the heel of the blade on one corner of the wheel, put your finger on the “hump” of the bevel where the bevel meets the concave the “top-side” of the blade, it will almost lift the spine, then grind and follow the curve of the blade near the edge all the way to the point. What you will be doing is creating another concave (secondary concave) at the apex of the bevel as it meets the old concave, this will make the bevel smaller because now more of the concave will clear the hone, slowly work closer to the edge… but not too close. Once you have thinned the bevel enough you can start to smooth it so it will appear as a single concave, so you "rock the blade from edge to spine… though the spine will touch the wheel you don't use much pressure so as not to thin it any more than it already is
The whole thing is just like honing a smiling edge... you have to follow the edge when grinding.
Of course you will have to true up the wheel when done, because the heel is the only part of the blade that needs to be worked on the side of the wheel.
Also you can do the same if you want to remove hone were from the spine, but this time you have the wheel spinning towards you and slightly raise the edge.
Believe it or not, that’s how the Sheffield grinders did it.
You start at one the side of the wheel.
Have the wheel spinning away from you and the razor edge pointing away from you (grinding away from the edge, not into the edge), and start with the heel of the blade on one corner of the wheel, put your finger on the “hump” of the bevel where the bevel meets the concave the “top-side” of the blade, it will almost lift the spine, then grind and follow the curve of the blade near the edge all the way to the point. What you will be doing is creating another concave (secondary concave) at the apex of the bevel as it meets the old concave, this will make the bevel smaller because now more of the concave will clear the hone, slowly work closer to the edge… but not too close. Once you have thinned the bevel enough you can start to smooth it so it will appear as a single concave, so you "rock the blade from edge to spine… though the spine will touch the wheel you don't use much pressure so as not to thin it any more than it already is
The whole thing is just like honing a smiling edge... you have to follow the edge when grinding.
Of course you will have to true up the wheel when done, because the heel is the only part of the blade that needs to be worked on the side of the wheel.
Also you can do the same if you want to remove hone were from the spine, but this time you have the wheel spinning towards you and slightly raise the edge.
Believe it or not, that’s how the Sheffield grinders did it.
Bart
Well-Known Member
Excellent, my friend. I was thinking in that direction, yet I believe I will first create a small chamfer on one edge of the wheel.
I think it's safer to avoid serious unevenness (at least in my inexperienced non-Sheffield-grinder's hands:-/ ). And I can just could just leave the chamfer in place for future adventures. The only thing, I'm currently trying to fold my brain around, is the question whether a rotating 45 degree chamfer of 5mm on a 200mm round wheel would behave significantly different than a 5mm wide wheel with a 200mm diameter. I do believe it would alter the resulting diameter. I would be working on part of an imaginary cone, which makes the curve significantly flatter. If I for instance would make the chamfer almost 90°, I could end up with an almost dead flat curve. I have no clue how much wider the curve becomes at 45°, but it is clear to me that I must maintain a fixed angle, since the curve will vary with the amount of tilt I apply. That makes me doubt about a rocking motion. If I work on a flat chamfer, it will be easier to maintain that fixed angle. 45° is probably too much. I was trying to figure out how much. While I 'm at it, I must also consider chamfering one of the smaller diameter grinding wheels I have for my jewelers lathe. I was thinking of doing a Google search for a mathematical formula that calculates the "virtual" curve of a cone cross-section with diameter x and angle y. If I find it, I can make an educated decision on which wheel to prep with which chamfer.
Thank you once again Smythe. I wish Ralfson, Torben and yourself would all live around the corner so we could work on this together and have a beer afterwards. More than one actually.
Bart.
I think it's safer to avoid serious unevenness (at least in my inexperienced non-Sheffield-grinder's hands:-/ ). And I can just could just leave the chamfer in place for future adventures. The only thing, I'm currently trying to fold my brain around, is the question whether a rotating 45 degree chamfer of 5mm on a 200mm round wheel would behave significantly different than a 5mm wide wheel with a 200mm diameter. I do believe it would alter the resulting diameter. I would be working on part of an imaginary cone, which makes the curve significantly flatter. If I for instance would make the chamfer almost 90°, I could end up with an almost dead flat curve. I have no clue how much wider the curve becomes at 45°, but it is clear to me that I must maintain a fixed angle, since the curve will vary with the amount of tilt I apply. That makes me doubt about a rocking motion. If I work on a flat chamfer, it will be easier to maintain that fixed angle. 45° is probably too much. I was trying to figure out how much. While I 'm at it, I must also consider chamfering one of the smaller diameter grinding wheels I have for my jewelers lathe. I was thinking of doing a Google search for a mathematical formula that calculates the "virtual" curve of a cone cross-section with diameter x and angle y. If I find it, I can make an educated decision on which wheel to prep with which chamfer.
Thank you once again Smythe. I wish Ralfson, Torben and yourself would all live around the corner so we could work on this together and have a beer afterwards. More than one actually.
Bart.