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first dilucot

geruchtemoaker

Well-Known Member
hey,
just an update today i took a razor I honed with the dilucot(after removing that stupid chip)and I have to say ti shaved awesome although it didn't pass the HHT. I would say it was almost as good at the razor Bart honed but on the other side it can't be compared because it was totally different(hollow ground vs. near wedge I think and straight vs. smiling).
it was honed on my Les Latneuses(the creamy side but finished on the hybrid side) who now I really really like
I think translating the artikels helped with better understanding the method due much higher concentration while reading.

cheers
Stijn
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
That's great news, Stijn.:thumbup:

Thanks again for all the help with article translations. I'm glad you got something out of it yourself.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

BlueDun

Well-Known Member
Good work Stijn :thumbup:

As you may have read in my other post, I too had to learn that the HHT is not the single most important goal to strive for. It will help indicate that you did well on keenness if you pass it straight and effortlessly off the hone. But as my chopper proves, which was honed by Gary during the weekend, you can get very good shaves without scaring the hairs to pieces just by showing them the razor!

Cheers
BlueDun
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
I must admit all these posts about the les latneauses layer are really making me itch with HAD badly, I will need to get one soon.

I am glad that you got such a good success from your stone, great shaves!
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
Disburden said:
I must admit all these posts about the les latneauses layer are really making me itch with HAD badly, I will need to get one soon.

I am glad that you got such a good success from your stone, great shaves!

Fortunately coticule.be disapproves of AD's. We've just informed Ardennes-Coticule never to send you a Les Latneuses. :lol:
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Honing on coticules is very difficult anyway. Les Latneuses won't change that :)
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
richmondesi said:
Honing on coticules is very difficult anyway. Les Latneuses won't change that :)
Better buy a Norton 4K/8K then. I've heard they're very good, especially to replace the boring chore of working on a Coticule.
:lol:

Bart.

PS. I try keeping up with the honing threads on B&B.;)
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
Well I do think the norton is easier for new honers to get a shave ready edge on that doesn't mean I don't use my coticule either, I use both depending on my mood and what I want to achieve that particular day. Some days I use my coticle and my bbw straight to my escher or just finish on my coticule. Is there something wrong with doing so or advising someone that having a norton combo is handy and can make things easier for them as an option? Its my opinion and what I choose to say when I am trying to help someone.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Nick,

There's nothing at all wrong with you stating your opinions. I just find it odd that if it were terribly difficult you'd want more of them. There's been a lot of threads where I could scarcely differentiate your posts from certain members who swear the vast majority of coticules are unfit for finishing razors. Additionally, I disagree with the idea that a Norton 4k is the right stone for that particular situation because he clearly needed a go to a 1k or lower stone, undo the damage from the diamond file, and get the bevel repaired before moving to a coticule or Norton 4k. A Norton 4k would be just as monotonous, leaving him feeling like he's "wasting time" as trying to hone it out with the coticule. (for reference purposes for those who may not have read the thread
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)

I do wish that people wouldn't take every possible opportunity to talk about how difficult coticules are and propagate the notion that those on which you can set a bevel are incapable of providing a nice edge. We've experienced too many coticules that set bevels and leave great shaving edges to understand those statements. Yes, I've used a razor (Filarmonica) honed on an Escher, as well as razors honed via almost every other option, and by the best in our scene... There's not nearly the difference in outcome as some would have us think. I do understand that the learning curve can be frustrating, but I wish that people didn't see the need to try to discredit the methodologies that many of us use with great success. Especially the guy that brought on this reply. He had good success with two razors, and he had a tough time with one that he took a diamond file to... And, the coticule being difficult is the problem?

I guess I just have a hard time understanding why I read so many negative posts about things that are very effective/easy for me. I don't consider myself to have any kind of special talent... Maybe I don't give myself enough credit :confused:

Kind regards,

Paul
 
G

Guest

richmondesi said:
I do wish that people wouldn't take every possible opportunity to talk about how difficult coticules are and propagate the notion that those on which you can set a bevel are incapable of providing a nice edge.

Well, apart from the fact that less than 2% of all Coticules are fit for honing razors, you have to realise that honing is a serious job. Therefore, all variables that could negatively affect your wannabe Honemeister powers must be obliterated. Starting with the fact that those few Coticules that have been declared fit for honing by a real Honemeister still might have some bad juju.

Synthetic hones, on the other hand, are synthetic, and real hones. Therefore, they will magically smooth your path to Honemeister heaven (but only if you own enough of them, talk about them in public a lot, have honed hundreds of razors with them, and - maybe the most important secret - finish these hundreds of razors on a so called Thurri).

Now, you may wonder why a whetstone from Thüringen would contain a different magic than a Coticule. But that is the one question that must never be asked, lest said magic might magically disappear, and turn into hot Honemeister air.

Jesting aside, I have lately noted a similar tendency, especially among newcomers to what seems to evolve into a Coticule Honemeister scene. Right now, it is 'I MUST HAVE A COTI FROM THE MAGIC LAYER DU JOUR!!!'. Funnily enough, I believe Bart hones my razors on such a magical Coticule, while my own is a lowly... eh, I don't even know what layer it is, nor do I care. But I can assure you that there is no tangible difference in the edges put on my razors by Bart with either Coticule. Which means that the magic is in the hand of the guy holding the hone and razor, not in the bloody hone itself.

Which, funnily enough, was the original idea behind calling Lynn a Honemeister. Whereas today, anyone with a pile of synthetics, at least two vastly overpriced naturals originating from a country of the membership of the Axis, and a very big mouth can proclaim himself a Honemeister.

And they say it is all about the love of razors.

Peace,
Robin
 

decraew

Well-Known Member
BeBerlin said:
Jesting aside, I have lately noted a similar tendency, especially among newcomers to what seems to evolve into a Coticule Honemeister scene. Right now, it is 'I MUST HAVE A COTI FROM THE MAGIC LAYER DU JOUR!!!'.

Some layers are indeed very popular, primarily I think because they are faster cutters than other layers. I see nothing wrong with wanting a coticule of one of those layers - fully realising there's nothing magical about it and that other coticules do their job as well. So stop the drama please, you're sounding like my wife !! Gonna grab another cup'o coffee.
 

BlueDun

Well-Known Member
HEY ... we were not told about that du jour layer during the coticule weekend!!! I knew that Bart did not tell us the whole truth ....

I want one of those ... NOW!
 
G

Guest

DRAMA??? WHAT DRAMA??????

Sorry. Too much coffee. ;)

I was not really talking about coticule.be, by the way. People here are calm, relaxed, and have inquisitive minds. But I happen to read other forums, occasionally. It seems to me as though things were getting worse there. I dread to think what the price increase will bring, because rare + expensive + hyped = more fanboys. Just think of all the nonsense that was written about
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, then multiply this by greed and naïveté. Now, where did I put that popcorn?

And as for wanting another Coticule: Each time I fancy one - and I do, of course - I ask myself, 'Have you managed to get the maximum out of the one you own?' Of course I have not. So why switch?

Regards,
Robin
 

decraew

Well-Known Member
BlueDun said:
HEY ... we were not told about that du jour layer during the coticule weekend!!! I knew that Bart did not tell us the whole truth ....

I want one of those ... NOW!

Toooo late, I bought the whole damn layer.
First I'll hype them some more and only then I will start to sell pieces.
But you can have a 2" by 6" for, say, 400 EUR !
 

decraew

Well-Known Member
BeBerlin said:
Sorry. Too much coffee. ;)

There's too little coffee. There's bad coffee.
There must exist a scientific proof somewhere that there's no such thing as too much coffee.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Well... a little pun that exploded into a discussion. Let's poke the fire a bit:
Here's Coticule.be's first and only dogma:
[note]Coticules Are Not Difficult. [/note]

I actually mean that. But it all depends on what you expect to achieve of your hone. Let us talk about the Norton 4K/8K. Back in 2007, when Straight Razor Place was still an uncompromisable authority, at least in my mind, for finding knowledge about straight razor related topic, the de facto standard for sharpening was the Norton 4K/8K combination stone. There was some talk in the margin about an expensive set of Shaptons. It was generally accepted that the Norton4K/8K was fully capable to make a razor "shaveready". I statement that I believe to be true. Nonetheless, many users were not completely satisfied with the edge they could achieve of it, and relied on a CrO pasted strop to get more sharpness. They called it smoothness, because it ain't easy to admit that you aren't able to get that desired sharpness of the hone. Some users had a Coticule or an Escher to put in between the 4K/8K and the pasted stropping. I think Lynn Abrahms started using the Norton4K/8K because it was: A. a good hone, B. made in the US, C.readily available. I know I started on Coticule for very similar reasons: they had this age old reputation and they are mined in my country. (It's interesting to note that the Norton started loosing attention on SRP about the same time the production was transferred to Mexico). But let's not digress. I am convinced that a very good edge can be achieved of the Norton8K. But getting the kind of keenness of any hone that allows for a nice shave requires the skill and practice many don't bother with. The pasted strop requires less competence and it works perfect for catching up with a bit of keenness on an otherwise well honed and polished edge. Nothing wrong with that actually.
Now, lets fast forward to 2009. I started a thread on the aforementioned forum that replaced the "Norton4K/8K + paste of choice=excellent edge" with a method on just one single Coticule. I thought I was just offering an additional option for those who cared to try, but the idea was accepted quite differently. Notably a Russian hone collector was outraged by the idea that one stone could be used to reach a good shaving edge, and subsequently the forum owner took sides. If you like Coticule.be, thank both gentlemen for cutting me loose of SRP. But I digress again. The one big difference, besides the fact that Coticules work different than the Norton4K/8K, is that my "one Coticule method" (the later Unicot), omitted the pasted finishing. That, and that only, makes Coticule honing more difficult. We expect the edge to be finished, right off the Coticule. I am sure that one could expect the same, right off the Norton4K/8K. But almost no one does. Which means that the Norton only needs to deliver a paste-ready edge, while we expect shave-ready of a Coticule. If one is prepared to use a pasted strop, honing on a Coticule is just as easy and convenient as it is on a Norton. If the premise is to reach an edge the owner is fully pleased with, let someone who has tried both stones for that purpose answer that question.

Nonetheless, both whetstones are very different to use. Because the US-based SRP promoted the Norton 4K/8K for so long, all the honing adages are inspired by the do's and don'ts on that hone. Zero pressure. Less is more. Watch out for "overhoning". Just to name a few. Coticules do not work well with these adages. But imagine that Coticules still were the standard and that everyone was transferring the Coticule adages to Norton hones. They would surely meet serious difficulties. And someone would likely claim that the Norton 4K/8K is a difficult hone. And then that dreadful soaking.:| :lol:

Now you know why I giggle each time I read the "Coticules are difficult to master" statement. Let's repeat it one more time: learning razor sharpening is like learning how to ride a bike. I agree that Dilucot may be a bit of a Unicycle situation. But with Unicot available, it surely isn't more challenging than any other procedure with solid hones. They all demand a wobble free honing stroke. And the ability to "read" the edge.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
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