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Honing On Japanese Natural Hones, an ongoing journal

I bought this hone, with a tomonagura, some time ago.

I've tried a few times to use it as a coticule, but didn't get great edges. After reading this thread I tried just honing till the slurry got thick. I could shave with that, but it still wasn't great.

I ordered three naguras from JNS and the owner was quite surprised as I apparently was his first Danish customer (He's Danish too) We actually talked on the phone and he advised me to try with only water. I did so, and the edge was crazy sharp, popping hair off my arm as no other edge I've ever managed to make.

I can get a good shave right off the stone with no stropping.

Stropping on linen degrades the edge somewhat. It can still shave, only not as good.

Stropping on my Heirloom Horsehide strop improves the edge, but not if I've stropped on linen first.
 
The linen that came with the Heirloom strop.
It's white and has two thin yellow stripes running down the sides on the back.
 
Nissarup,

What is the condition of the razor when you start?

How many times did you try refreshing the slurry?

Are you using any pressure?

And what is your "tomonagura"?

As for the edge degrading after stropping, it sounds like either you are stropping incorrectly or overhoning.
 
I've starting with both slightly dulled and a run-over-glass edge.

I refreshed the slurry between 3 and 5 times.

I use as little pressure as possible.

I believe the tomonagura is the same as the hone itself. It is quite similar, but I have no way of being sure of that.

It's only the linen that degrades the edge. Or my use of it ;) I try to strop the same way on linen as on leather.

Granted, I am no experienced straight-shaver, so all of this might be because of me lacking some skills. I've just tried different things and found this to work for me. Keeping everything else the same, as far as possible, I get better edges off the stone with water than with slurry.
 
nissarup said:
I believe the tomonagura is the same as the hone itself. It is quite similar, but I have no way of being sure of that....

...I've just tried different things and found this to work for me. Keeping everything else the same, as far as possible, I get better edges off the stone with water than with slurry.
Click to expand...
Whatever nagura you're using, it's probably safe to say that the slurry you're getting reflects the nagura itself and not necessarily your hone (unless your hone isn't very hard - not likely). Your tomonagura may indeed be cut from the identical material, but the only way (that I know of...) to know for sure is to raise a slurry using a diamond plate. Then there is no doubt.

Your stone may well work better using water alone, but at least you will have explored all the possibilities. They're all mysteries.:blink:

Good luck however it works out.
 
nissarup said:
Stropping on linen degrades the edge somewhat. It can still shave, only not as good.
Stropping on my Heirloom Horsehide strop improves the edge, but not if I've stropped on linen first.
Click to expand...
That is a very unusual experience. But if you're happy with the results and it works that way for you, that's great.

I once had a felt "linen" component on a hanging strop that wiped away my edges, that's why I asked about your linen.

So far, the few other edges I've ever put on a razor in some kind of experimental setup, that turned out to not digest a normal linen well, all turned out to be not very durable anyway.

But if yours results are great and stay that way, and you can repeat the result, I would just stick with it. Yesterday evening, I've met Leo De Brouwer, the author of the book "Gladde Jongens". It's the only book I know in Dutch language about shaving with a straight razor. He shaves with a straight razor for over a decade. For keeping his razors going he just uses a large loom strop with Dovo red paste. 4 swipes before each shave. Nothing else, not even the regular stropping on clean leather. There's a serious coat of red paste on top of the leather, and he keeps that well lubed with a generous amount of oil, every few weeks.

How about that? :) If that doesn't illustrate that in straight razor shaving, whatever does the job is good, I don't know what will.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
A quick question for someone who is more adept at Jnat stones than myself:

I've been finishing and honing all of my razors on coticules recently, not even finishing on my Escher which is sitting in a drawer for now but say I wanted to see what the Nakayama Kiita I have will do to the edge if I try to finish on that after the coticule and water. Would I still use a mud on the stone to create the finishing touch to replace the coticule edge?
 
absolutely YES, you should use a little honzan slurry with a light pressure (milky consistency or watery)...after that, strop finally with water 60 x stroke VERY LIGHT with only the weight of the blade until the razor remove all dents!

i don't use the slurry breakdown, it is fun to have a different approach, but i have not seen any difference between the beakdown and strop finally with water..i ve also the kiita and the asagi and use this procedure for both stone...the most important step i think is the pressure on the finishing stage..i use a lot of water and very very very light stroke...you should see an incredibile difference!! ..pressure is the key...absolutely..if the edge will be harsh, do another 30x stroke.


you don't see ANY difference between JNAT stone and coticule...
i have made a lot of test this month...
 
I just posted these pics in a related thread on another board, so please forgive the redundancy again.

Every stone is different. Here is a Wostenholm honed on an Oozuku using water:
Wosty_Oozuku_Water2_rotated.png


Wosty on Oozuku using slurry:
Wosty_Oozuku_Slurry6.png

For this hone, make mine slurry please.B)
 
I have a Nakayama Kiita from Takeshi's site and although it says the grit is over 10000+ for finishing razors I just haven't gotten any good results from it. It seems to dull the edge in the matter of minutes where I can't even shave my arm at skin level. I have been using mud/slurry to finish the razors and I have been making the slurry with a Honzan as well as a DMT 325 credit card size and the results are the same. I've read from other forums that if you use slurry on a "Fast" Jnat stone the slurry will dull the edge quickly from overhoning and the edge breaking down on a very small level so I was wondering if maybe this is the cause.

Any tips out there?
 
Disburden said:
I have a Nakayama Kiita from Takeshi's site and although it says the grit is over 10000+ for finishing razors I just haven't gotten any good results from it. It seems to dull the edge in the matter of minutes where I can't even shave my arm at skin level. I have been using mud/slurry to finish the razors and I have been making the slurry with a Honzan as well as a DMT 325 credit card size and the results are the same. I've read from other forums that if you use slurry on a "Fast" Jnat stone the slurry will dull the edge quickly from overhoning and the edge breaking down on a very small level so I was wondering if maybe this is the cause.

Any tips out there?
Click to expand...
I have one on order, Nick, but know nothing of the Jnats. Given that, if your edge feels ruined from a very fine hone, I would give it just five or six strokes on a linen or you jeans just to make sure you do not have a micro wire edge. If you do have one, the sharpness after stropping will be jaw-dropping. Best, Denny
 
The sharpness after stropping is still dull and won't shave arm hair unless I press the edge to my skin and force cut the hair. I am using a fairly thick mud as JimR mentions to use in the tutorial but I somehow am wondering if the mud is too thick and is rounding the edge rather than refining it sharper.
 
Disburden said:
The sharpness after stropping is still dull and won't shave arm hair unless I press the edge to my skin and force cut the hair. I am using a fairly thick mud as JimR mentions to use in the tutorial but I somehow am wondering if the mud is too thick and is rounding the edge rather than refining it sharper.
Click to expand...
Shucks, I was hoping that was it. I have had several eye opening recent experience on this subject. I like a fairly heavy hand in some situations and have gotten microburrs in the process that when stropped provided hht3+/4! Wish it had worked for you. In fact, pressure might be a variable to work with in your journey.

Gimme a couple weeks and I'll be able to add something of my own experience. It definitely sounds like you are on the right track with slurry dulling, but again, I am not the one to help. SmartAss, Steve, where are you when you're needed. Denny
 
definitively i have sold the asagi and the kiita, i love coticule, i have a sort of "feeling" with the belgian hone...european feeling ;)

coticule is all around,coticule have a great feedback,coticule is a better hone FOR ME.
 
Disburden said:
The sharpness after stropping is still dull and won't shave arm hair unless I press the edge to my skin and force cut the hair. I am using a fairly thick mud as JimR mentions to use in the tutorial but I somehow am wondering if the mud is too thick and is rounding the edge rather than refining it sharper.
Click to expand...
you have to experiment, I have tried many many Jnats and none worked well with thick slurry. Slurry has to be fairly thin, just enough to color the water on the hone. Just play with it and see what happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd3n_l0myYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zVawUS9D5w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMXOnbOy2z8&feature=related
 
I will try a lighter slurry, the mud may have been too thick. Thanks for the videos, they're great to watch!
 
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