J.A.Henckels honing problem

[king]

Hi to all. I am new here but not novice in world of stright razor shaving and honing. Come from Croatia, active on www.brijacnica.com (Croatian forum dedicated to straight razors and little bit active on SRP and B&B). Once more time, greetings to all members of coticule.be and especially ti JimR.
OK.
Recently I bought J.A.Henckels 7/8 straight razor from e-bay. It was NOS and not shave ready, but guy that sold it to me try to hone it out and did not have luck so he decide to sold it. As he told to me he try to hone it using Norton 4k/8k pyramid with electric insulation tape on the spine.
So my questions for you, much experienced honers are:

1. Is it possible to set bevel just using Belgian Yellow Coticule stone or I need coarser stone for doing that job (I have Naniwa 1k stone)?

2. How to deal with fact that guy before me using insulation tape (I do not want to use it in early phase of honing such bevel setting)?

All sugestions are welcome.

 

[Guest]

Srdacno Dobro dosli, King,

Both problems are addressed in the sharpening academy. Take a look at the UniCot manual first. The idea is to remove the existing bevel (produced by the other bloke), set a new one, set a small secondary bevel, strop, shave. So much for theory.

Good luck,
Robin

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Welcome to Coticule.be King

As said from Sir Robin, you dont need another stone to set the bevel, and the unicot method works very well with the henckels

Best of luck and kind regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[king]

Thanks guys.
I read about Unicot and also Dilucot method.
I wasn't 100% sure about Unicot method, just for reason that someone before put electric tape in early phase of bevel setting.
So I want to be sure what to do before I start honing job.
Probably today I will try to hone this "monster".
So, you think that with Unicot method I can undo effect of honing with electrical tape and set the new bevel with apropriate angel, and in the middle of the process to put tape as it described by Unicot method.

P.S.BeBerlin-Hvala na dobrodošlici (P.S.BeBerlin-Thanks for welcome)

 

[Guest]

You have to realise that the bevel is actually minute (at least I would hope it is). Dragging it across glass will remove it. Re-read the manual to make sure you get the process right. And watch the video - also very helpful.

Good luck,
Robin

 

[king]

You suggested me Unicot method at first, but what you think about Dilucot method for doing this job?
Pro and contras?

 

[king]

Also those are the photos of the razor, as I am not so familiar with J.A.Henckels (seller also did not know anything about it, he bought it from someone and tra..la..la) can anyone told me something about it (model, production year....)?

 

[Guest]

Just the ones listed here. Seriously, make sure to have read and understood that information before you touch the razor. It will save you pain and frustration. 20 minutes well invested. And yes, I am speaking from experience ('can't be that difficult, let's just try, umm... Bart, can you re-hone that Henckels for me, I think the bevel has got a bit wide...').

Regards,
Robin

 

[Guest]

Oh, nice! We call them broadswords. Absolutely fantastic razors. The scales are not original, of course, but once this razor is shave ready, you will absolutely love it. Kullenrücken ("hammered spine") and Spanish point, too. Lovely. I have some original scales (black plastic) if you want to replace that horrible wood one day.

Regards,
Robin

 

[king]

I agree that scales are ugly.
I plan to rescale it, maybe if you have some scales in "Ebony", I really do not like plastic scales that was on vintage razors.
Something like photo down but with shape like on Tim Zowada or M.Livi razors if it possible, if not down shape is also OK. Maybe you have something like that????

 

[king]

Also, let be clear.
Do I have to use Unicot or Dilucot method of honing.
First you told me to read about Unicot method then on Dilucot method so now I am little bit confused which one.

 

[Guest]

The method you choose is entirely up to you. I suggested that you read both documents to understand the differences in the two approaches. Personally, I would start with the UniCot method. But, as I said, that is up to you.

Regards,
Robin

 

[king]

All sorted out now. Thx.

 

[geruchtemoaker]

well on the weekend I got the idea of Bart to always use dilucot and in case it isn't keen enough just ad a layer of tape and go to the last step of the unicot

regards
Stijn

 

[Bart]

well on the weekend I got the idea of Bart to always use dilucot and in case it isn't keen enough just ad a layer of tape and go to the last step of the unicot

regards
Stijn

That is more or less how I learned to master Dilucot without too much frustration.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[DJKELLY]

well on the weekend I got the idea of Bart to always use dilucot and in case it isn't keen enough just ad a layer of tape and go to the last step of the unicot

regards
Stijn

That is more or less how I learned to master Dilucot without too much frustration.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Might be a good place to ask the pros. When doing a dilucot is there any imperical evidence of finishing one stage using a microscope, say 50X, before diluting to the next. I know it gets to be by feel and slurry inspection, but it would be nice to see an edge refined as much as possible on the first stages of dilucot. I'm speaking of after the bevel is set, which is pretty easy to tell with a scope. Since were talking microns here, I don't believe it is possible. Is my noobiness showing? Thanks, Dennis

 

[wdwrx]

Dennis,
IDK, for sure, but I used to use my 'scope all the time when honing, and I'd swear that I noticed that the "sand-blasted" appearance on the bevel would slowly diminish and become replaced with a finer sand-blasted look, until it was totaly replaced by linear scratches. At times, I could see little pockets of sand-blasting surrounded by more polished areas. I kept working the blade until all those pockets were gone. Not that it shaved really well or anything, and I've since quite using the 'scope much so i cant really say. I have noticed that all my finished edges now don't have an sand-blasted look at all. Of course, I can't say anything about the very edge, but I sure could see lots on the bevel.

BTW, not that I consider myself a pro....

Cheers,
-Chris

 

[DJKELLY]

Thx, Chris. I, too, have noticed the sand blasting. I initially got great results but am now on a bit of a sophomore slump. I have found I overdid "use pressure or torque it" on water and wasn't paying enough attention to slow dilution. Had to unicot a few and it made me feel like a loser. I have gone back to very light pressure at final stages and the world is closer to right again. Thanx for insight, eh.

 

[Bart]

Had to unicot a few and it made me feel like a loser.

That is absolutely not necessary. Nothing wrong with doing Unicot.

I check each edge I hone with a stereo microscope, usually after bevel correction and certainly before and after test shaving. But if I needed to bother with the scope while in the middle of the Dilucot procedure, I am quite sure that it would distract me from reaching the best results. Moreover, the way the bevel looks tells nothing about the keenness of your edge. Your assumption that you can see when the bevel is ready, is a wrong one. Neither is Dilucot a matter of transgressing from the sandblasted look to the uniformly scratched one. If that could be your only concern, chances are high that you end up with a nicely polished bevel that lacks keenness.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[wdwrx]

Just for some clarification Bart,

Moreover, the way the bevel looks tells nothing about the keenness of your edge. Your assumption that you can see when the bevel is ready, is a wrong one. Neither is Dilucot a matter of transgressing from the sandblasted look to the uniformly scratched one. If that could be your only concern, chances are high that you end up with a nicely polished bevel that lacks keenness.

When you say the sandblasting doesn't reflect the very edges's state I understand (I think....) (is that what you mean?)
But does it bear any relation to one's progress through dilucot, assuming the keenness is there?
I will be the first to admit I don't necassarily understand everything I see through the microscope. I guess I'm asking if that diminishing sandblasting can, or maybe shouldn't, serve as markers?

arrgh... I'm having a hard time articulating what I'm trying to ask...

I know I've had lots of polished bevels that wouldn't shave worth a damn
Cheers,
-Chris