New coticule came today!

[Stewart]

Many thanks Caleb! I have often wondered how the Castle Forbes would work and from what you describe it sounds like it is as I had expected. Several years ago I had been beta testing some home made creams that were made by someone on one of the wet shaving boards and their cream performed like you describe. The water to cream ratio was not the same as many of the other commercial offerings and a slight change in the brush technique was needed to get the most out of it but when everything came together, it was like ice skating on your face. Anyway, thank you so much for such a nice write-up on your special day.

The stone looks awesome and from what you say is working out for you perfectly. It could just be that " one special stone " !
Thanks again
stew

 

[kinematic]

That's a big piece of rock dude

 

[mrmaroon]

Im going to make a video of the slurry generation and slurry speed sometime. My hybrid side is definitly faster than my coti side. Within 20 strokes the slurry is blacker than I have ever seen. Slurry generation is a long process though. It only attains this speed when slurried from a hybrid stone. It could be the smaller amount of slurry gets darker faster, but it is still faster than my coti side with the same amount :-/. This is weird because it goes against all the hybrids in the vault. Maybe I just got a very slow les latneuses?

 

[mrmaroon]

Ive tried another razor updated dilucot on this sucker and i'm still amazed by its speed. However, it peters out after a while. Almost like the hone is to hard to refresh its slurry like other coticules. Maybe if the slurry is breaking down that accounts for the increased ability to gain keenness? I am just hypothesizing here. Im probably making it more complicated than it needs to be. However, I do know that I have two razors I could never get to where I wanted them and this sucker dilucotted them to shaving nirvana!

Mrmaroon

 

[garyhaywood]

i was getting shave ready razors more aless every time with dilucot after lots of practice. Now there has been several acasions where the same razor has been rehoned. I have shaved with that razor and the shave as been that smooth its almost magical,i can onestly say the stubble just literaly melts and the razor you carn't feel it on your face. It's as if the razor is doing nothing. the problem for me is matching that and knowing that level. If i don't reach that level i'm not happy. the level i 'm reaching 9 times out of ten is more than ok. the other times i have hit peak is unreal but i find it can be hard to reach. This is why fokes put coticules dowm, why because they never experianced what i have. I try other hones now and then. I have escher that i have used after coticule ,is any better or worse or is it in my head that it is, because it cost lots of cash i'd like to think it was.If you find the right coticule just stick with it and it will get worse before it gets better as you have discoverd.

 

[mrmaroon]

Gary, that is sound advice:thumbup: although ive come a long way, I still feel I have a much longer road to walk. When I started honing I sucked: I found that little barbers coti and with unicot got my first shave ready razors. I have struggled with dilocot for some time, maybe 4-5 months? I am not saying that the Les Latneuses coticule was the magic answer to my problems, it has helped me gain confidence and now I can dilocot on my other coti. I remeber arguing with bart as to why anyone would even mess with dilocot if you could accomplish the same task with other hones. Now I realize my mistake! Feeling a great hone do its magic is a great rush indeed. Im glad this community offers so much help to those that struggle. Without it, I would still be stuck way back before unicot!

Mrmaroon

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I remeber arguing with bart as to why anyone would even mess with dilocot if you could accomplish the same task with other hones. Now I realize my mistake! Feeling a great hone do its magic is a great rush indeed. Im glad this community offers so much help to those that struggle. Without it, I would still be stuck way back before unicot!

Mrmaroon

Hahaha I remember that Caleb, and I remember thinking "Wait till He gets it, he wont want to unicot ever again" not that theres anything wrong with the unicot of course, it warms this old mans heart to hear you say that buddy, and to see the advances you have made both in honing and dare I say humility?
If we ever meet in person I feel more inclined to shake your hand and hug you, than knock you out, which believe me is good for me! (JK) hahahaha

Well done amigo :thumbup:

My Kindest Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[sparq]

That's one pretty bout. I wonder how one can get his own piece of "LL" without needing luck similar to winning in a lottery? :cry:

 

[garyhaywood]

i got hold of a yellow green escher as i sold my last escher. i shaved of my new coti/combo . I honed dilucot on yellow side only. this gave me a smooth and nice sharp edge that was shave ready to a level that i was happy with. half way throught shave i did 30 laps on escher wioth milky slurry as is recomended. the rest of shave was not as good it actaualy made the toe end a little duller. So i did 30 mopre laps on escher water the shave was quite harsh and felt sharp. i then did atg shave it felt a little hars , i then tookmy cotio and did 15 laps on water. i carried on with atg shave . the shave was defanatley softer and more comfortable , it gave me back the buttery shave, this to me proved what the coticule can do with just 15 laps on water. I'm sure escher can do the same thing but not for me this time. I can easily sell my escher and recover the money , i will try it lots more and try to get the best out of it.

the point is i have experimented i need to test some more. in my experiance the scher is over priced and over rated defanatley not woth the money, may be a good collecters hone. may be there are some fake ones out there, not saying mine is but it makes me wonder.

 

[yohannrjm]

Gary,

I completely agree with you. I've had two vintage Thuringians (no Escher branded stones), and I've got very sharp edges with them. It took some work, as they were small. Still, the edges were sharp, but harsh. The edges off my cotis are sharp, but smooth and easy to shave with.

Maybe I'm not experienced enough to get great edges off my Thuringians, but I much prefer the edges off my coticules for shaving purposes.

 

[garyhaywood]

when i posted my little rant, i was a little pissed of realy. probably should'nt of said eschers are over rated . they are defanatley over priced. i reckon thury are most likley the same thing, i'm not anexpert on this but i'm sure there is not much differance between eschers and thurys, i have had both and the slurry they develope is the same just colour in stone can vary.

iactauly tryed the same thing as above 4 times now. i actauly convinced my self the green / yellow escher was good untill i added coticule laps and then i noticed the differance.i'm going by my own experiance.You have to try your self to realize.i honed the same dovo on my four coticules an tested they all felt slighly differant the escher added with just 20 laps on water made the dge feel sharp but not as comfy with slurry the edge was comfy but not as sharp. with both slurry then water little better , like a said 15 laps on water on my combo and i had soft buttuery feeling atg i reckon another 15 laps would of been even better.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Rant? what rant Gary?? B)
Seriously as you know me and you have talked quite a bit about this, and I reckon if the coticule finish is done bang on then its breath taking, now thats not easy to consistently achieve and some razors just wont have it to the very very best it can be IMHO, but just about any razor will get a very shaveable edge off a coti, and a lot will get that jaw dropping one.
Its a very very fine line I think, but if you get that extra last bit of sharpness the smoothness comes with it, as Bart has said all along, with almost all other stones, well all of the ones I can think of that extra last bit of sharpness comes and the edge is harsh.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[sparq]

I think, but if you get that extra last bit of sharpness the smoothness comes with it, as Bart has said all along, with almost all other stones, well all of the ones I can think of that extra last bit of sharpness comes and the edge is harsh.

I highly recommend trying Charnley forest after Coticule just for the fun of experiment. IMHO, it adds the just right bit of sharpness without making them any more harsh. CF used to be one of the preferred hones for burr removal by the cutlers of old which may or may not be related to the smoothness it gives edges.

 

[Bart]

This makes me think of something Maurice Celis told me at my last visit.

I was explaining to him the circumstances of my exile at SRP and apologizing for the controversy that was stirred in the process. In the end I believe people that were after me, felt the need to bash Coticules instead. No, they are not the "no-brainer" solution for for sharpening razors, but the difficulty was largely overstated. And yes, if the user fails, he will notice a distinct lack of keenness, but also that does not mean that Coticule edge shouldn't or couldn't be plenty keen.

All kinds of eye-brow raising statements were being made about them, and somehow I felt responsible. If the outcome of starting a website in support of Coticules had to lead to them being scorned on other websites, I felt it was maybe better to shut down the whole initiative. I openly shared my doubts and concerns with Maurice.

His answer was firm and prompt. "Bart", he said, "You know, and I know, that Coticule is the best sharpening rock in the world. As long as that is your honest opinion, you must never be afraid to state it. Those who envy something will always regret its success. Nothing you can do about it. Now, finish your beer and I'll show you the main entrance of the Old Rock mine." End of that conversation.

A while ago, Caleb shared some prices out of an 1902 Sears Catalog, when Thüringer hones and Coticule both still were in production.

hones	price
"A very good belgian razor hone" 2x6	25c
"A Superfine Belgian razor hone" 2x6	50c
"Extra Superfine Belgian razor hone" 2x6	75c
"Barbers Special Razor hone" 5x2.5	$1.75
---------------------------------	----
"Thuringian dark blue 7" w/ sl. stone	20c
"Barbers Gem Thuringian 5x2.5" w/ sl. stone	50c

I think we can assume that if Thüringer hones were really that much better, there would have been a price difference at the time they were both readily available on the Market. It's not as if Belgian hones were extremely rare back then.
There is little doubt that the Thüringer hones are hyped way above their intrinsic value. That does not mean they can't provide a nice shave. But for those who think that the high price holds a promise, I imagine they could feel let down a bit.

I think Gary's comparison is one of the most honest and unbiased on this topic, that can be found on the entire Internet

All I have to say about the matter.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[mrmaroon]

30 mopre laps on escher water the shave was quite harsh and felt sharp.

Ive got 2 vintage thuringians a blue and a dark green/yellow. The reason you said gary is the reason I don't use them anymore. I think the reason they are so over-priced is the hype, cool label, and mystique of them. I won't get rid of mine soon, but if someone really wanted one I might consider it in the future.

Regards,
Mrmaroon

 

[garyhaywood]

i sold my last escher to fund the green/yellow one barbers delight. these are rated top of the eschers.Its still early days yet.Having said that my 5x2 escher which was bluey grey put a better edge on my razor than this yellow one. when i first used the blue one with slurry it did'nt have any dulling efect with slurry but the shave was quite crispy , when i swithched to water the shave was much smoother.even after coticule with water it made a nice differance. Thats not been the case with the yellow green one.I would say the thurys you have probably do the same job as what i have a got may be even betterI was expecting a real soft smoother shave but i hav'nt got that. I'm sure escher with water would cut a little quiker with water than a coticule would . I'm not to sure about that . After the slurry on escher slightly dulled my edge.Ie the hht failed at toe and weakened every where else. i test shaved there was a little resistants and a tug at toe end i tryed 20 laps on water escher and it rescued it slightly. hht was better. so i carried on with shave. shave felt sharper but not smoother. i did 15 laps on coti hht was back to how it was and shave felt smoother and more comfy.this is what has baffled me. is it me or the hone.

i will try a thew more times.

 

[mrmaroon]

i will try a thew more times.

Im not giving up on mine yet. Considering how long it has taken me to unlock some potential in my coticules I can say that I must spend a lot more time on the thurry/escher. Lots of people say they get good results. That might mean something. People also say they use eschers after coticules. If I use mine, I go coti+slurry->Dilution->Coti water->escher water->Coti water, strop and shave.

I showed that Les Latneuses to my mom and she had me ask ardennes to get her one as well. It must have really caught her eye to make her want to get one. She usually shrugs off my straight razors as a weird hobby to have. When I told her it was like buying land, and she wouldn't lose money she wanted to get one.

Regards,
Mrmaroon

 

[Matt]

Umm, so your mom wants to buy a hone just for keeping it? Nice, you could borrow it from her occasionally, couldn't you? :

cheers,
Matt

 

[mrmaroon]

Umm, so your mom wants to buy a hone just for keeping it? Nice, you could borrow it from her occasionally, couldn't you? :

cheers,
Matt

Thats the plan! Who turns down the chance to use free coticules? bart sure doesn't! I will have to teach her to sharpen kitchen knives.

 

[danjared]

Umm, so your mom wants to buy a hone just for keeping it? Nice, you could borrow it from her occasionally, couldn't you? :

cheers,
Matt

Thats the plan! Who turns down the chance to use free coticules? bart sure doesn't! I will have to teach her to sharpen kitchen knives.

See, my mom just tells me that my shaving habit is dangerous and that I could get diseases from using vintage razors. She tells me that what I don't know is that I need to be careful because it's "really dangerous". :