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Are you as annoyed as I am?

My, my, what an interesting thread. Two things: 1. I think personal issues with any member of another forum should be settled there; 2. Bashing SRP is too easy to be fun.

ad 1. Thankfully, both big forums have installed badges to make a member's vendor status transparent. Whether anyone is willing to accept advice from somebody with a vested interest is up to that person. And there is a balance to be struck. Someone making money with a certain knowledge or skill in a tightly knit, small community must be reasonably good at what he's doing. At least in theory. I practice, evaluating the edge of a razor (to keep the example simple) is an exercise in personal preference. Bart has honed many razors for me, and there is at least one that he likes a lot, and I do not. Does that mean Bart is bad at honing? No. Does that mean that even the best honer is infallible? No. What it means is, quite simply, that there are many contributing factors to a successful shave, and the razor itself isn't even the most important in my opinion.

However, being infallible is crucial where there is predatory competition. SRP makes little pretence of its support of a small group of individuals who are said to be exceedingly good at certain aspects of straight razor shaving. B&B gives its pushers and enablers much more leeway by comparison. While I do not approve of SRP's handling of marketeers, it is relatively free of them. B&B, on the other hand, employs far more devious practices to keep their moderators' cronies happy. I cordially invite anyone to peruse this thread in all its glory.

ad 2. SRP is very big. If you don't like certain aspects, leave. It is too big to be changed, and if you think its drawbacks (of which there are some) outweigh its uses (of which there are many), leave.

It really is that simple. But bashing certain of its members here does not change anything over there while spoiling the mood here. I don't think that's such a great idea.

Regards,
Robin
 
First of all, I want to say thank you for your sympathies.:)

BeBerlin said:
(…)
It really is that simple. But bashing certain of its members here does not change anything over there while spoiling the mood here. I don't think that's such a great idea.

Regards,
Robin
Click to expand...

Word.

I´m astonished, of how big this thread became. I surely didn´t intend do make a connection to the above mentioned thread. That one developed pearallel to this one. I don´t want to bash certain persons, that was absolutely not my intention. I wont answer in that thread anyway.

I was like "well, I don´t care if I get banned, and when a newbie asks for hones, I am the Jehova screaming guy that tells him/(her) about coticules. But after that, I don´t know… I guess, it´s just not worth all the grief. I feel a bit bad for the beginers, who will spend a fortune for synthetics plus finisher(In another thread, a newbie asked the same question and the first answer he got was a norton set from amazon for 180 bucks…). And some people simply prefer natural hones, as I do. If someone told me to get synthetics first, I´d have searched as long as I´ve found a natural method(Wait; that´s exactly how it went…).

My problem with SRP is, that it is so helpful. As you said, Robin, there is so much valuable information. And I like finding and collecting such information. On the other hand; looking at threads that are remotely connected to hones and honing might spoil my mood.

Nothing but respectful regards,
Tok

EDIT: Darn, I just looked at the very thread on SRP and I like the direction it moves, at the moment… We´ll see, how it gets in a day.

Off Topic: As most of you have read the thread already, I have two questions: Do you think half an hour for unicot is too long? I didn´t measure time when honing, so i guessed. Thinking back, I´m not sure if i wouldn´t manage to get a razor shaveready in ten minutes. At the moment, I´m trying dilucot on every razor, thus, I´m not sure.
Second: I am really interested in the "uniescher, unithurry, uninearly-every-other-natural-finisher" question.
 
Nothing really new to add here, but I just wanted to express my appreciation for this site and all of the good information found here, whether it relates to coticules or not. I much prefer coming over here for discussions on all things straight razor related, rather than other sites (including the one being discussed here), even though there is also good information to find elsewhere.

For the record, I haven't honed thousands of razors, I haven't been using a straight for 6 months, and I've read lots of info on lots of different sites about honing. For me, I'm doing this all for my own personal enjoyment. I have no pecuniary interest in any of this. I have razors that have been honed by honemeisters, and I don't care what hones they used. I know what my face feels like after shaving with one of these razors, and I can get pretty much the same results using a single coticule. I don't always get the same results after Dilucot (I'm still learning), but I always do if I jump to Unicot right after that. I've done this on multiple razors, both Sheffields and Soligens. I've even used Unicot after sub-par performance with synthetic hones with great success.

I don't know what hones and methods are best for you, but I really don't care, as long as you're happy with your results. I respect the knowledge and skill of those who have been doing this for a long time, and will continue to take advantage of them in the future. Using coticules is just one way of doing things, and they seem to work pretty good for a beginner like me, so it can be done.

I probably wouldn't be so into all of this so much if it weren't for this site, so once again, thanks to all here for their insightful, humorous, thought provoking, and informative comments. :thumbup:
 
Tok said:
Do you think half an hour for unicot is too long? I didn´t measure time when honing, so i guessed. Thinking back, I´m not sure if i wouldn´t manage to get a razor shaveready in ten minutes. At the moment, I´m trying dilucot on every razor, thus, I´m not sure.
Second: I am really interested in the "uniescher, unithurry, uninearly-every-other-natural-finisher" question.
Click to expand...

Tok, my sincere support and a big man hug goes to you, for the way you were "cyberbullied" after this I wont comment further on the subject, because it has all been said, and I would have to use words like "Fascist" which even I with my "fuck You" Tattoo dont feel entirely comfortable using here. other than that I would say that only people who are afraid tend to attack others....thats that.

ok, for me we have around 10 minutes for Unicot, and 15 for Dilucot, plus a bit extra if the Dilucot is a tad off at the HHT.

I have both Thuringian, and Charnley Forest Stones, both highly rated naturals, and at some stage I have pledged to try a Unicot/Dilucot version of a full hone with both of them, only problem is I prefer the Coticule shaves.

Best Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Bart said:
hoglahoo said:
I go to SRP when I want to read about something other than coticules
Click to expand...

I go to the local library when I want to read something else for a change.:lol:

Ah well, all this quarreling in the margin of a hobby, it is not worth the energy. I have learned that the hard way.
It's like driving a car through Belgian traffic. It doesn't help to get all worked up over it. Actually, that only makes the experience worse. It's much better to flip the internal switch to Zen-mode. I know, I know, that switch has a spring that makes it flip back at unsuspecting times.:rolleyes:


Kind regards,
Bart.
Click to expand...
I agree :) I don't think the point is lost on you Bart :D
 
For me I do not give a monkeys. I have one coticule now as it is all I require to keep my gear in tip top shape. I can use it (99% because of Barts advice, 1 % my own efforts. Advice is something I listen too whether I take it is an entirely different thing, but life is too short to get drawn in.

Long live the coticule
 
hoglahoo said:
Bart said:
hoglahoo said:
I go to SRP when I want to read about something other than coticules
Click to expand...

I go to the local library when I want to read something else for a change.:lol:

Ah well, all this quarreling in the margin of a hobby, it is not worth the energy. I have learned that the hard way.
It's like driving a car through Belgian traffic. It doesn't help to get all worked up over it. Actually, that only makes the experience worse. It's much better to flip the internal switch to Zen-mode. I know, I know, that switch has a spring that makes it flip back at unsuspecting times.:rolleyes:


Kind regards,
Bart.
Click to expand...
I agree :) I don't think the point is lost on you Bart :D
Click to expand...

No, that post surely isn't lost on me. :D :D
Yet to every one else: let's not make too much drama of it. My wife asked twice last night: "What are you smiling over there?". :lol:
It's just shaving. Nothing to get all worked up about. I don't think I ever recommended a Coticule to anyone. But I can testify, from all sharpening methods and tools I ever tried, If find Coticules the most fun.
Unless I manage to saw of my hands in my wood shop, no one can take that away from me.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Bart said:
I don't think I ever recommended a Coticule to anyone. But I can testify, from all sharpening methods and tools I ever tried, If find Coticules the most fun.
Click to expand...
I can attest to that. Both points, actually. I bought a full set of Nortons because a) they were recommended by everyone (it was before the Shapton hype), and b) because they were said to be super easy to use. I still find them awkward to use. I mean, they're Joe Chandler's so apparently they must work. But they never really did for me. They dry out too fast, and keeping them soaked is a pain. Also, I absolutely hate honing with the hone on a table. I'm not dexterous person, as Bart can tell you. But holding a hone in my hand works for me. With the big Nortons, that's a non-starter.

And that's what all this should be about. Stuff that works. I like stuff that works. Even more so when it works for me and not somebody else. I have not desire to become "proficient in honing". I want to be able to sharpen a razor, and keep it sharp. If a Coticule does the job for me, that's great. I like stuff that works in simple ways even better. Really.

I do not, however, like zeal, greed, sycophants, and pushers. Which is why I would like to repeat that I think this thread is missing the point. The problem isn't a particular forum (and if so, SRP most certainly is not the worst in kind by any stretch). Truth be told, I still think SRP is a great forum overall. But that's where it mostly ends. I have developed issues with other aspects of the site, but that is neither here nor there. I encourage you to read this article by Bruce Everiss, though: http://www.bruceonshaving.com/2010/10/11/traditional-shaving-forums/. It's the best analysis of shaving forums I know, and I fully agree with everything the author says, especially this:

Planet-of-the-Apes.jpg


Now, the real problem is vocal proponents of wrong solutions, especially those with vested interests. But these people are not an SRP problem, they are a shaving forum problem. Because they are on all the shaving forums. It's only natural, because that is where they acquire their projects. Believe me, if this site had a gallery (shave of the day, rape-orationru, whatever), they would be here, too. But this focus is research oriented, and false claims are quickly presented as that. So, no honesheisters here. I think that's great, but it does not make it a superior forum for anyone. Just for me, or people like me.

Regards,
Robin
 
I miss the picture of the puppy! :cry:

Nice post Robin

Best regards
Ralfson (Humble Host Of WSW Vendor Free SOTD)
 
tat2Ralfy said:
I miss the picture of the puppy! :cry:

Nice post Robin

Best regards
Ralfson (Humble Host Of WSW Vendor Free SOTD)
Click to expand...

And, Sir Ralfson is an excellent host..

The host with the most... Adapted, of course! B)
 
Bill!
Welcome my Brother :thumbup: good to see you here, I hope you like it?

Best wishes and SHAVE ON!.... LOL

Ralfson (Dr)
 
tat2Ralfy said:
Bill!
Welcome my Brother :thumbup: good to see you here, I hope you like it?

Best wishes and SHAVE ON!.... LOL

Ralfson (Dr)
Click to expand...

Thanks Ralfy!

Hone on, my brutha....

Hone on! B)
 
Quick disclaimer:
I said I would not discuss the negative parts raised in this thread again, I am sorry to go back on my word here slightly, here is another interesting thread, started by a good friend of mine on another forum, I thought it might be interesting for some to see how some common players help to turn sour, it is not my intention to judge or discredit anyone with this, however I do feel that it is worth a read, please make of it what you will.

http://www.wetshavingworld.com/forums/showthread.php?447-Romancing-the-Stone

My Best Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Was there a reference to this thread I saw?:D

The Man pulled that line on me once, and I cried "Bullshit" then and I do now too.
Sorry if this seems arrogant coming from a n00b, but not everyone needs to do any one thing thuosands or hundreds of times to become proficient at it. I mean, I've built lots of houses, but not thousands, and not every one, and I'd sure say I'm PDG at it. The proccess of learning isn't to do everything, its about developing problem solving skills, and being able to adapt a known process to suit a new situation.... or create a new process.
Let's put this into perspective; we are talking about grinding a piece of metal against a stone. There are only so many variables. I find the insistence on having to do hundreds of anything to be good at it specious at best, and insulting at worst.
 
The God of all hones! :D :D :D :D

I like that. :thumbup:

I don't know why these guys are so religious about sharpening razors. And even less why they are so zealously defensive about their own sharpening dogmas. We see the same tricks pulled out the hat, each time again, to stall any sensible conversation about sharpening with a Coticule, or with any other simple sharpening setup, for that matter.

About a year ago, JimR started a thread on Coticule.be about sharpening razors on (one) Japanese hone. Without putting words in Jim's mouth, I don't think that he ended up starting that thread over here, without good reason. Instead of torpedoing this thread about another type of hone, we chose to welcome and support it. There was one moderation call made, after someone started to derail the thread by filling it with nonsensical so-called "observations". This thread became one of the largest on Coticule.be, and JimR was invited to distill an article out of it, now published at the Sharpening Academy. Now. Is this a better or a worse way to sharpen a razor? My answer to that question is that I don't give a fuck. :p There are many ways to sharpen a razor, what shaves your face best is a matter of personal preference. And which hone(s) you want to use for that, is no-one's business but your own.

Shave on my friends, :thumbup:

Bart.
 
tat2Ralfy said:
Quick disclaimer:
I said I would not discuss the negative parts raised in this thread again, I am sorry to go back on my word here slightly, here is another interesting thread, started by a good friend of mine on another forum, I thought it might be interesting for some to see how some common players help to turn sour, it is not my intention to judge or discredit anyone with this, however I do feel that it is worth a read, please make of it what you will.

http://www.wetshavingworld.com/forums/showthread.php?447-Romancing-the-Stone

My Best Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
Click to expand...

Wow, Ralphy! I am blown away at the depth of your involvement in the shaving world. Looking at said thread I am also amazed at the incestuous relationships of some of the inner circle. Boy, am I a boot. It is nice to see how balanced you are, my friend, in the middle of contentious situations, and a little disconcerting to witness ego getting in the way of honest debate, no matter how well it is disguised. Pigs and lipstick come to mind. I would love to see these guys take up golf and debate mastering that endeavor. BTW, I second the gent with good hands. Your friend, Denny
 
Hahahaha

see how the back pedalling starts once confronted? and then lets enter into a half assed airy chat about some side issue
there not half as "powerful" when they are confronted, and not on there home ground.

Denny thank you

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
In the face of what appears to be bizarre (if we discount cynically self-interested or just downright mean-spirited) behaviour given the latest threads on the net concerning coticules, there is little I can say that if worth reading. But, therefore, I offer a little gem for your perusal (let absurdity be absurdity):
http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/

regards,
Torolf
 
Oh, lovely, a Zombie thread. Anyone got a wooden stake?

Right. Let me begin by reminding everyone of a piece of advice as old as the internet itself. "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics... Even if you win, you're still retarded." Let's take it from here.

"Thousands of razors honed", is just another way of whining that your daddy is bigger than my daddy. It is not an argument. It is not even contradiction. It is just bragging. And it does not prove anything at all. Except maybe that you are a bit slow on the uptake. Because a lot of the so called variables invoked to explain how horribly complex this art of honing is (and why you should always have your razors honed by a so called professional) can be scientifically deducted from the tools used.

On a tangent, as soon as you qualify as a certified honesheister according to the arcane rules of the inner honesheister circle (hint: hone 100 razors on each stone, minimum - it will keep you from asking awkward questions in shaving forums, and make vendors happy), somebody will up the ante. Next time, it will have to be thousands of razors honed!!!

Which brings me to two other points: maths and mineralogy. Many aspects of honing become clear fairly quickly once you understand the science involved. Since we're already busy digging up old threads, how about this one? http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/advanced-honing-topics/37951-fun-verniers-calipers-tape.html It can easily be summed up as, 'Respect has to be earned. It does not come free with multiple exclamation marks.

To sum this up, the easiest way of dealing with a cyber bully is to ignore him. He will not go away, of course, but you should not give him the satisfaction of spoiling your mood. Like, this one actually made me chuckle. That guy seems to have more Eschers he wants to sell at premium prices than sense. Very entertaining. Very.

Regards,
Robin
 
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