first dilucot

[danjared]

Collecting hones. I just don't have collector's blood, but several of my friends have. Some guys collect music record, some collect WW-II relics, some collect straight razors. Their's one thing I noticed that all these serious collectors disgust: it's guys that hoard. I 'm sure that I don't need to explain the difference to you. A genuine collector would never refer to his hobby as an acquisition disorder, as he would find the lack of personal restraint that suggest, not only a disgrace for himself, but also for the objects he loves and studies.
On Coticule.be we welcome collectors and treat hoarders with compassion. I realize that offends the latter. But rather that than becoming a forum that goes along with a disorder that leads only to gear fetishism. If we were into selling as much Coticules as possible, I would probably not have any problem with that. But I have not started this place to promote Coticule sales, only to offer support to people who want to put theirs to good use.

Nick:
Bart's quote is the only point I was trying to get at. If you want to collect, that's fine. But framing it as you being ill and unable to control yourself is another thing. Going in public and saying that you can't control your purchasing desires, stating (even jokingly) that you're following a rehab program, and mentioning how your credit payments are out of control--those aren't what I came to this site (or B&B ) to hear on a regular basis.

I also hear you say how you are having difficulty learning your coticule, yet you also mention being distracted by this or that new hone purchase on a regular basis. Sure, you won't learn something unless you stick to it. But don't discourage someone else from trying to stick to it when you are unwilling to.

 

[Woodash]

Steve,

I think one more thing to consider about why the Nortons may have caught on in certain circles is: D. As synthetics, they are consistent and predictable, and I guess that has it's advantages.

Actually I never understood how a hone could be anything else than consistent. I mean it is the same hone each time you use it. Humans can be inconsistent in their ways, but a hone?
They are indeed less predictable, because they are made by a number of random natural events, which leads to variance. But my experience with testing the hones that are in the Vault, proves that the procedures for honing on them are generally applicable. So they're not that unpredictable. Some are slower than others, but that is not of such magnitude that it overrules other factors, such as the amount of convexity on a bevel, the width of that bevel, the length of the hone, how thin the blade of the razor, the abrasion resistance of the steel. And those are factors that alter with each sharpening job, while your Coticule will be the same as last time you used it.

Bart - I don't doubt for a minute that your procedures for honing on coticule are applicable. Heck, the first razor I ever honed was on my coticule using the Dilucot and your videos. I think you have given the ship and anchor in a good port. But as you say, some cut faster, finish smoother, etc. and I just wouldn't expect that to be the case for a synthetic hone, given good production control. So, coticules are not unpredictable, but given even minor variation in these properties, one has to be at least a little more 'interactive' - for lack of a better word - working with them than with different synthetics of the same type. And that's the fun. With the Norton: same formula, same edge....blah. Viva la difference.

 

[chti_lolo]

Just a little testimony of an old newbie (old because I think I'm older than most of you).
My coticule is my first hone, I got it a month ago and have already succeeded in UNICOT (the shave was quite as good as the shave from a professionaly honed razor in the US). Dilucot is quite difficult for me and after a week of effort, the results are far from being the same.

But why have I chosen a coticule over a Naniwa, Norton.... maybe because I'm french and thought my grand father used also a belgian hone, maybe because here in France a selected coticule is cheaper than a Norton but mostly because I have found in this forum well documented method and thought I could have a fruitful help from members of this community if I had any problem in my learning curve. And maybe the coticule is not the best option for anyone, maybe it's more difficult to learn to hone on it, but if you can get a help : it doesn't matter

And as I'm older, I like controversy because I think they could lead to progress so I like the way this forum work.

I have to say ti shaved awesome although it didn't pass the HHT

Stijn, do you have very thin hair?


Regards

Laurent

 

[Disburden]

Collecting hones. I just don't have collector's blood, but several of my friends have. Some guys collect music record, some collect WW-II relics, some collect straight razors. Their's one thing I noticed that all these serious collectors disgust: it's guys that hoard. I 'm sure that I don't need to explain the difference to you. A genuine collector would never refer to his hobby as an acquisition disorder, as he would find the lack of personal restraint that suggest, not only a disgrace for himself, but also for the objects he loves and studies.
On Coticule.be we welcome collectors and treat hoarders with compassion. I realize that offends the latter. But rather that than becoming a forum that goes along with a disorder that leads only to gear fetishism. If we were into selling as much Coticules as possible, I would probably not have any problem with that. But I have not started this place to promote Coticule sales, only to offer support to people who want to put theirs to good use.

Nick:
Bart's quote is the only point I was trying to get at. If you want to collect, that's fine. But framing it as you being ill and unable to control yourself is another thing. Going in public and saying that you can't control your purchasing desires, stating (even jokingly) that you're following a rehab program, and mentioning how your credit payments are out of control--those aren't what I came to this site (or B&B ) to hear on a regular basis.

I also hear you say how you are having difficulty learning your coticule, yet you also mention being distracted by this or that new hone purchase on a regular basis. Sure, you won't learn something unless you stick to it. But don't discourage someone else from trying to stick to it when you are unwilling to.

Joking about HAD was something I didn't know was taken as a bad thing in this forum as it is a joke in every other forum I have seen before. I own seven "stones" total, naniwa 1K, Coticule, BBW, Norton, Escher, nakayama kiita, naniwa 12K in the two years of straight shaving, I am not hoarding things for the sake of it. Saying I am in Dr.Drew's Had Rehab (making fun of the TV show Dr.Drew's Celebrity Rehab) in my signature on other forums is a JOKE. I am seriously baffled that someone would read that, knowing what Had and RAD and Scad, etc are jokes in shaving forums and then create something negative by it. Same as saying my credit card payments are out of control "LOL" is a joke, I am sure you have seen other people in forums joke about RAD and such also. I am confused why I am being confronted with this?
Trust me if I had financial problems I wouldn't be buying shaving supplies nor would I be mentioning it in a forum about shaving.

Also if I was hoarding things all over my home I would probably have not learned much from my yoga practices.

 

[Paul]

Laurent,

I think you like controversy because you're French. I have a dear friend that is French, and I can't think of anyone I argue with more. :

Cheers,

Paul

 

[chti_lolo]

And also because I'm older. Even here in France, young people prefer coming to a compromise (even a bad one) , so no wave, no quarrel, everyone shall agree with every one... it's so boring:w00t:

Laurent

 

[Guest]

I am confused why I am being confronted with this?

Because is not funny anymore. Not least because the alleged joke is used by too many people to veil an actual disorder. Personally, I find it appalling to see tools designed and produced by German master craftsmen decades ago end up in the hands of people who hoard them simply to satisfy an urge whilst being cheered on by their peers. And since Bart mentioned it, here is a nice explanation of Gear Acquisition Syndrome:

Some collectors might have a lot of gear, but this doesn't define a collector as having GAS. A collector is generally trying to complete or update his collection and that can mean that a collector might have gear that doesn't work, but has some sort of intrinsic value.[...] A scholar might have a lot of gear, but it is primarily purchased to demonstrate a distinctive feature of the item purchased. A scholar is very similar to a collector, but the scholar's gear is generally purchased for the enlightenment of others, rather than for just personal gain; not a hobby. (Source)

Regards,
Robin

 

[Disburden]

I understand that some people may have 23 Eschers in their closet for no reason at all except to own them but I also understand that's none of my business if they choose to do so. Also if I had 130 Escher hones in my house and I bought then, you didn't buy them for me, then it's none of your business.

In my spiritual practice I have learned that attachment to physical objects can cause issues with progression of the spirit and the mind, it is something I am aware of.

I am sorry, again, if anyone that by saying I am in Dr.Drew's HAD rehab in my signature in other forums offended people. As someone who fought a severe alcohol addiction for years and then found the path I practice, it was not something I was intending to do.

 

[Bart]

Joking about HAD was something I didn't know was taken as a bad thing in this forum as it is a joke in every other forum I have seen before.

Well... If you browse back in this thread, you'll notice that Danjared, Paul and myself just "joked" along. I don't think any of us meant to make you feel unwelcome.

I own seven "stones" total, naniwa 1K, Coticule, BBW, Norton, Escher, nakayama kiita, naniwa 12K in the two years of straight shaving

Wouldn't you agree that such a statement can sound far-out to the average guy who just started out shaving with a straight razor and is doing some online reading to anticipate what to do when his razor becomes dull eventually? There's 5 hones capable of finishing (actually 6, but that's another topic), in that list. Of course it's OK. You're obviously a collector. Yet the jokes about HAD on forums tend to transfer their innocent nature to the habit itself of spending huge money on sharpening gear for shaving. I have put shaving in bold, because most of these forums pretend to be about that in the first place. (Coticule.be is actually the only one that pretends to be about hones ). Anyway: shaving does not require hone X and hone Y and hone Z. It is a matter of "or". And that is something I like to watch over, because my first concern is for the new guys that arrive here in search of information. For that, I think we must keep the record straight and the general perspective one of or instead of and.

No one should take the attempts keep that perspective personal. That choice is part of the very nature of Coticule.be and perhaps what makes this website different from the large forums. I said "different", not "better".

Bart.

 

[garyhaywood]

i wished i had 23 escher's they would be a great investmant,

gary

 

[Disburden]

i wished i had 23 escher's they would be a great investmant,

gary

Only Brown ones, Gary! :

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Did I mention I have a Charnly Forest? : hahaha

Actually I much prefer a Coticule edge

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Disburden]

Did I mention I have a Charnly Forest? : hahaha

Actually I much prefer a Coticule edge

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

How is it? As far as I'm concerned they cost way too much money now.

 

[danjared]

Did I mention I have a Charnly Forest? : hahaha

Actually I much prefer a Coticule edge

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

Hey Ralfy, by any chance have you had much luck finding good scythe stones at your local market?

 

[tat2Ralfy]

How is it? As far as I'm concerned they cost way too much money now.

Its as sharp as I could ever want and a little too crispy when compared to my coticules, someone suggested I shave off a razor finished on it a few times to see if it mellows, but I didnt see the point, as my Coticule edges are bang on straight away, I enjoy using it though, just as I do my Thuringian.
And as we are in this thread I must say I use all of hones from time to time too. I just prefer Coticules

Hey Ralfy, but any chance have you had much luck finding good scythe stones at your local market?

You know TBH I completely forgot, so sorry I will endeavour to find one once again for you, a nice old one, and flat not round IIRC?

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Disburden]

Finally back on topic:

Does the hybrid side of the Les Latneuses Coticule act like a BBW with slurry would act? The reason I am asking is if I decided to get one I would probably get rid of my BBW and seperate coticule since I would have both in one effectively.

 

[danjared]

Hey Ralfy, but any chance have you had much luck finding good scythe stones at your local market?

You know TBH I completely forgot, so sorry I will endeavour to find one once again for you, a nice old one, and flat not round IIRC?

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

Not a problem at all. I'm looking for a round one, medium-ish to fine grit (of course not fine like a razor hone). Thanks again for looking. It seems like the antique stores I visit never have anything worth buying related to any kind of cutlery except maybe butter knives. And I rarely use butter knives anyway.

 

[garyhaywood]

my hybrid side act just like a coticule it is much quiker than a bbw it is much harder. it also has a magnetic feel to it. as you hone it does feel slightly magnetic. mine cuts fairly well. it also finishes with a nice smooth mellow edge which i like . the slurry it creates is same slurry as normal coti cule may be a little tadge of white . i would recomend one i find mine very easy to get good results. i'm not sure if they all work the same .i should imagine they very similar from what i have read.

gary

 

[TM280]

It figures, every time I see a thread with a surprising number of pages, something is going on...

Well, I'll jump into the tomato-storm:

but we're all here to sharpen razors so I'm fine with it

This is an innocent statement of fact, in one way. But I read it a little differently, and perhaps this has something to do with the sideways communication on display. As Bart says, "this site pretends to be about hones". I believe that this says much more in conjunction with the above quotation.

Namely, I'm not here to [just] sharpen razors. Bart sets "shaving" in bold, and rightfully so. A certain type of shave is, of course, my goal (fast, smooth, comfortable, maybe effortless). But I am not a very goal oriented person. For me, the shave tends to be a test method for hypothesis about a stone, my skill and the process (something I am absolutely certain I share with many).

There is a beauty in mastery which I chase. The result is only a means to understanding this relationship.

On another note, I would like to voice my support for open discussion, even, as Robin says, we might wind up with "You're an idiot". This place is no different than other forums in the sense that there are disagreements, disputes or unpleasantness. What I believe is different here, is that it is much more in the open. A good idea is a good idea, even if it comes from an idiot. A bad idea should be called such even if the personal "authority" of its proponent is a factor. Authority does not need to overtly close a conversation or make personal attacks. Often only an omission will do...
An open discussion allows focus upon just such distinctions, and enables a separation of the argument from the man. As Robin so clearly states.

Now, personally, Robin has a writing style that makes me pale in its directness. He is correct to say that there are meaningful cultural differences in this regard. One could also make a case for conflicting goals in communicative encounters (something I think this thread illustrates). And while we're on the subject of values, one could also argue that vehicle is a vital component of an argument...
But my point is, what I find unpleasant in text (force) does not overshadow either the message or intention behind it. Sweet words can also conceal poison.

regards,
Torolf

 

[Disburden]

my hybrid side act just like a coticule it is much quiker than a bbw it is much harder. it also has a magnetic feel to it. as you hone it does feel slightly magnetic. mine cuts fairly well. it also finishes with a nice smooth mellow edge which i like . the slurry it creates is same slurry as normal coti cule may be a little tadge of white . i would recomend one i find mine very easy to get good results. i'm not sure if they all work the same .i should imagine they very similar from what i have read.

gary

Thanks, Gary, I understand, your help is always appreciated. :thumbup: