richmondesi said:Robin, while you raise a good point, it's interesting to note that many report declines in razor keenness while using it. I am not sure how that would change depending on the type of razor being used (Japanese vs Western)
Thank you, sir!Harvitz81 said:I believe it is a RupRazor (RR) Strop
richmondesi said:Robin, while you raise a good point, it's interesting to note that many report declines in razor keenness while using it. I am not sure how that would change depending on the type of razor being used (Japanese vs Western)
Bart said:I haven't experienced any decline in keenness. I did testify though , that the leather component "waxes" the edge during the first couple of uses, which influenced my HHT-readings, until I degreaser the edges. After a good 2 weeks of use (about 20 stroppings and a fair amount of hand rubbing) I no longer need to degrease the edges before testing. I don't know if statements about declining keenness and this waxing effect are related, but it's a possibility. Other than that, I have no clue what that's all about.
Bart said:About performance for a given price, when you buy a 35EUR cigar ( they do exist), you'll need to trim the cap, before you can smoke it. The manufacturer won't do that for you. And there's always the possibility that you like a 3.50EUR cigar better. That's just how it is.
Bart said:Calling this strop dysfunctional, is unfair. That's my opinion, now that I've been able to really try it. I'm actually enthusiastic about it. And that is honestly not influenced by the price I paid for it. I would be equally enthusiastic if it cost me only 19.99EUR.
I came to own my Kanayama strop because of this thread. A few members complained about their Kanayama linen not delivering up to their expectations. Jim didn't understand because he has no shortage of happy customers. I speculated that Coticule users might have different expectations of a linen strop than people who rely on other sharpening ways, certainly when those other sharpening ways include a pasted strop. That completely defeats the purpose of fist time stropping on linen when coming off a whetstone.richmondesi said:How did you come to own this strop, Bart?
I don't know about HHT scores that were supposed to drop. It thought that the problem was that apart from drying and cleaning the edge, the Kanayama linen didn't deliver the aforementioned edge performance boost post honing. Urmas shared some pictures with me, in which he used good old carbon paper to reveal how well a razor makes contact with 2 different fabric strops. One was the Kanayama linen and the pictures revealed rather poor contact. It looked as if the razor contacted merely the sides of the strap. That confirmed my suspicions that this indeed was a problem of suppleness, and also of surface flatness, but the former would surely affect the latter. Urmas used a technique to soak the linen and hammer it, and achieved good results. He shared this earlier on in this thread.richmondesi said:Numerous members here complained about the linen component causing their HHT scores to drop, right? I'm not talking about the leather, at all. I am referencing the repeated references to poor linen performance that you cited on several occasions in your discussions about these strops. In fact, I'm willing to bet my house that you started doing the "heavy handed" breaking in because you weren't fond of the linen performance.
richmondesi said:Bart said:About performance for a given price, when you buy a 35EUR cigar ( they do exist), you'll need to trim the cap, before you can smoke it. The manufacturer won't do that for you. And there's always the possibility that you like a 3.50EUR cigar better. That's just how it is.
Apples and muffins is how far off this comparison is. What cigars do come with a trimmed cap? I can name several linen components that come fully prepared not to dull my razor's edge.
Just for your information, it is hard to not read sarcasm in that closing line.richmondesi said:Bart said:Calling this strop dysfunctional, is unfair. That's my opinion, now that I've been able to really try it. I'm actually enthusiastic about it. And that is honestly not influenced by the price I paid for it. I would be equally enthusiastic if it cost me only 19.99EUR.
I'm very happy for you :thumbup:
wdwrx said:I just took my Eskiltuna to my little Las Lutneuses, came off of it with a HHT3 on a medium hair, took it then to my virgin Kanayama linen (which has had no treatment beyond a half-assed rolling between my palms when Bart first suggested his treatment; it was the other side that I'd sanded).... no improvement in HHT, and furthermore, going from that to my Scrupleworks v-weave linen failed to bring the increase in HHT that I'm used to seeing when going from the stone to the strop. There wasn't a drop in HHT, but certainly no improvement.
I think that is one of several truisms that should be compiled and made mandatory reading for every new joiner. Along with "which layer is right for a beginner, and how many virgins do I have to sacrifice to make it work", and "are Thurri's better tehn Coti's for honing Filly's and Butchy's". Or something along those lines.Bart said:I am completely confident that I could hone 2 identical razors on the same Coticule, strop one on the TM linen / Old Traditional and the other one on the Kanayma linen / leather, without any discernible difference between the end results.
Bart said:I came to own my Kanayama strop because of this thread. A few members complained about their Kanayama linen not delivering up to their expectations. Jim didn't understand because he has no shortage of happy customers. I speculated that Coticule users might have different expectations of a linen strop that people who rely on other sharpening ways, certainly when those other sharpening ways include a pasted strop. That completely defeats the purpose of fist time stropping on linen when coming off a whetstone.
Anyway, because I don't like to talk about something that I didn't try, I stated my suspicions this problem could very well be related to suppleness (or the lack thereof) and left it at that. Jim contacted me with the offer to send me a couple of test straps of the linen. He told me I could do with it as I pleased and expressed the hope that would be able to solve the problem for our members. I had two concerns: firstly if I was to test the linen, I wanted to test it in conjunction with the rest of the Kanayama strop. And secondly, I insisted to pay for the strop, minus one test strap of linen. That's how I ended up buying a Kanayama 80000.
Your question suggests that I am not objectively reporting about my experiences with the Kanayama strop. I can assure you that Jim encouraged me to be blatantly honest about whatever issues I found with the strop. I understood that he had to make that clear.
The motive of your question, however, I do not understand. Yet I answered it anyway.
Bart said:I don't know about HHT scores that were supposed to drop. It thought that the problem was that apart from drying and cleaning the edge, the Kanayama linen didn't deliver the aforementioned edge performance boost post honing. Urmas shared some pictures with me, in which he used good old carbon paper to reveal how well a razor makes contact with 2 different fabric strops. One was the Kanayama linen and the pictures revealed rather poor contact. It looked as if the razor contacted merely the sides of the strap. That confirmed my suspicions that this indeed was a problem of suppleness, and also of surface flatness, but the former would surely affect the latter. Urmas used a technique to soak the linen and hammer it, and achieved good results. He shared this earlier on in this thread.
There is no need to bet your house. There is nothing concealed here. I decided up front that my first attempt would be to mechanically soften the fabric, as soon as it arrived. I believe I made that clear earlier on in this thread. Hence, that is what I did, and it solved the case, as far as I'm concerned. The first few days, I repeated the process of the video I shared.
wdwrx said:I played around a bit more last night, and I could definitely tell that the strop was dropping the HHT results back. I went all the way through two more leathers (Black Bear and Kanayama) to a HHT 4 or 5, back to the Kanayama linen, and retested to show a distinct drop to HHT 2+. I will test next to see if the leather is able to recover those values from a starting point of HHT2.
wdwrx said:Well, I find my Kanayama linen to be most like the vintage linens I've seen. It got the weight and body of those old ones that is lacking in the newer products. Not to say I dislike it, but the vibrations it sent out I could feel in my teeth. For me the points Torolf brought up in regards to the psychological aspect of stropping probably are one of the biggest factors. Much the same held true for the nylon component of the Vintage Blades strop I gave away... it comes down to the tactile sensations, and the perceptions of the user. Though I do stand by the test results I had that showed an apparent drop in HHT results. ~ Bold is Paul's
If anyone is interested I'd be willing to loan my linen component out for testing by one of our brethren here more experienced than I. No way will I permanently part with it though.
Bart said:Dutch cigars almost without exception do have a trimmed cap, even the most expensive ones. Does that makes it a shame that Carribean cigars need to be trimmed by the smoker? That the Kanayama strop requires a simple additional step to make it fully functional for Coticule users, is not something that would hold me back from buying one.
Bart said:Just for your information, it is hard to not read sarcasm in that closing line.
Bart said:Paul,
I am getting sick and tired of all this shit.
This is essentially a positive forum
Bart said:Paul,
I am getting sick and tired of all this shit.
This is essentially a positive forum, founded to talk about Coticules and how to manage getting the best possible results.
On a tangent, we discuss the strops that follow, and this thread serves no other purpose than to see how one can manage getting the best possible results.
Are you getting better results from other hones, other strops, other gear, good for you.
Would you like to perfect your results on that other hone, strop, gear, feel free to start a thread.
But stop infesting threads with all this senseless noise about products you don't own or don't care to try.
If your only business in a thread (any thread on this forum) is to repulse the discussed item (whatever it is), then stay out of it. There is plenty opportunity on the Internet for producing noise.
Bart.
Not if you beat the horse for a little longer. It doesn't cost a penny and the animal won't feel a thing.vgeorge said:You shouldn't have done that Robin. Cow hide with hard felt strops are waaaaaaaay better.:
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