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Ti honing

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i'm just looking for the post but i carn't find it .

bart could you run through how you hone your TI's . i no you use tape and its either one oor two layers then you add another layer or somthing. to prevent micro chips etc, make bevel stronger.

my le grelot is passing all the test even hht but i can feel a little bite as i'm shaving. i have just rehoned on my la grosse jaune . i will try again . then i will use tape or unicot . i'm trying not to resort to paste.

so just a quik run down on layers of tape you use on regular basis. I no i've mentioned it before but its realy weird how the ti 's is the only razors i seem to stuggle to the best out them. I did get an amazing edge on my special eddition of my la grosse jaun so i no its possible.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Gary,

On TI's new forgings I do Unicot (there a the exception to the rule, because I normally always do Dilucot).

I correct the bevel with one layer of tape and produce the secondary bevel with a second layer of tape. My tape is 0.15mm tick.

With less tape, the edges tend to chip during the first test shave. Once tamed, I find TI's among the smoothest shavers available.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
bart do you find when you have honed with dilucot the edge can lack somthing in ie the smoothyness and a little sharpeness. my edge is passing hht as good as but the shave just feels a little less smooth and a tiny bit of resistants, its just baffled me. i use o.15 mil tape so i will try what you say and i'm sure it will work a treat . i never noticed the edge chipping as of yet. Do you mean just tiny tiny chips not visable to the naked eye
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
bart do you find when you have honed with dilucot the edge can lack somthing in ie the smoothyness and a little sharpeness. my edge is passing hht as good as but the shave just feels a little less smooth and a tiny bit of resistants, its just baffled me. i use o.15 mil tape so i will try what you say and i'm sure it will work a treat . i never noticed the edge chipping as of yet. Do you mean just tiny tiny chips not visable to the naked eye

i've just shaved with ti this morning and to my surprise after four atempts the razor is nice and smooth and defanatley much improved.

the last rehone was bevel reset on my burton then some laps on my hybrid. i used normal or old dilucot this time, as i had to try somthing differant. I then went to my la grosse jaune as this hone worked on my last ti i statred with milky slurry and finished using dilucot did'nt take to much longer and i used a little pressure at the mid stages and finished with 50 on water. HHt was same as before. the shave was spot on. i noticed instant smoothness like a nice draw sensation down my face thats the best way i can explain the feeland thats what i aim for. I find its not easy to get to this level but when you do its the best feel you will get on any face .

All i can say is my 21 does leave a very smooth edge as i have said before.

other than that may be i was using to much pressure on the ti and the razor just was'nt responding that well. i could and have used ti paste and it did work by taming the edge down.

i just new it could be acheived some how of the hone and it buged me. i'm glad i stuck at it. it was woth it.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
bart do you find when you have honed with dilucot the edge can lack somthing in ie the smoothyness and a little sharpeness. my edge is passing hht as good as but the shave just feels a little less smooth and a tiny bit of resistants, its just baffled me. i use o.15 mil tape so i will try what you say and i'm sure it will work a treat . i never noticed the edge chipping as of yet. Do you mean just tiny tiny chips not visable to the naked eye

No problem with Dilucot, but why bother with it, if you're going to add tape anyway? The 2 layer Unicot edge shaves perfect and it can be touch-up in a breeze. I have a few TI's that the owners bring (or send) in every 6 months to a year. I'm talking about guys with 1 or 2 razors in use. Some touch up with a small Coticule, others with paste. In both cases they are happy with the edges I put on their TI.

I could put a 0 layer bevel on and Unicot with 2 layers, but instead I create a 1 layer bevel and Unicot with 2 layers. I don't know why, just the way I do it.

The chips are only noticeable with the microscope after my test shave.
I've experience this with 3 "new forgings" in a row, solved it with tape in all 3 cases and haven't looked back ever since.

I 'm attaching an old picture, shot with a camera looking to one of the eyepieces of my stereoscope. It's a lousy picture, but good enough to show the chipping.
This shows the edge of a TI Silverwing. It was completely smooth after honing and the first stropping session. This is what it looked like after one full test shave. Test shave was OK, but should I have send it like that, the owner would probably experience an edge that dulled at a fast rate. After I solved the issue by raising the bevel angle almost 2 degrees, the razor shaved very noticeably smoother and the chips remained absent.

1

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Does this just apply to new TI's? I have the one Robert Williams honed, and am due to hone it and send it back, I would like to make the best Coticule impression that I can with it, and dont want to send it out sub par.

My heartiest Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
funny thing was i had a second shave with this ti ans it did feel duller and less comfy last week. i was'nt quite sure why.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
Does this just apply to new TI's? I have the one Robert Williams honed, and am due to hone it and send it back, I would like to make the best Coticule impression that I can with it, and dont want to send it out sub par.

My heartiest Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

What's the model?
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I haven't got a clue what the model is :confused:
I do know it has wooden scales that have a red hue, and a gold wash/etch on the blade with the words "HOLLOW GROUND FULLY WARRANTED" and an Eagle fighting a snake.
Any Idea's my far more Razor knowledgeable friend?

Best wishes
Ralfson (Dr)
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i'm not sure ralfy but i'm sure it aplies to the new steel on ti's i think it the c135 or somthing. my TI's are both well my silver wing is the latest steel not sure on my le grelot
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
That must be a Thiers Issard "Eagle brand". They're "old" forgings. Doesn't mean they're old in the strict sense. Thiers Issards sells razors in both types of steel. The "new forgings" use a steel with extremely high carbon content. Ridiculously high, according to some source, but I'm not a metallurgist, so I wouldn't know. I find the new forgings to be very smooth shavers. In fact if I had to choose the brand that - on average - shaves my face best, it would be Thiers Issard.

The old forgings are quite brittle as well, but less than the new forgings. Thiers Issards seem to expect their razors to be sharpened with a pasted setup. They sell 4-sided paddle strops for that (and others as well), and a number of different pastes.
Sharpened with such approach the bevel angle near the very edge will be steepened, compared to sharpening on flat whetstones.
I can imagine that their spine thicknesses are designed to meet the optimum bevel angle with their own sharpening system.
In that light, adding a bit of tape to accommodate for our system, is not that illogical.

Just don't let the razor, or who it's going to, intimidate you. Hone it as if it was yours, and I'm sure the shave will be good.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
well after a little more touch up on coti ti did'nt seem to be the same . i'm going to tape the spine set bevel and then unicot as you say bart i'll let you no how i get on.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i've just finished honing as you sugesterd. HHT is unreal. i can actauly run the razor above skin level bove the back of my hand and thefine hairs slice and jump in mid air.carn't wait to shave with razor should be interestingnow then to touch up on this razor i would need to add two layers and hone on my coti.

if i was to touch up on paddle with paste would i need to add tape or not. if it was pasted strop would you tape or not/ i would guess not on pasted strop not sure about felt paddle or leather on paddle strop
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
That must be a Thiers Issard "Eagle brand". They're "old" forgings. Doesn't mean they're old in the strict sense. Thiers Issards sells razors in both types of steel. The "new forgings" use a steel with extremely high carbon content. Ridiculously high, according to some source, but I'm not a metallurgist, so I wouldn't know. I find the new forgings to be very smooth shavers. In fact if I had to choose the brand that - on average - shaves my face best, it would be Thiers Issard.

The old forgings are quite brittle as well, but less than the new forgings. Thiers Issards seem to expect their razors to be sharpened with a pasted setup. They sell 4-sided paddle strops for that (and others as well), and a number of different pastes.
Sharpened with such approach the bevel angle near the very edge will be steepened, compared to sharpening on flat whetstones.
I can imagine that their spine thicknesses are designed to meet the optimum bevel angle with their own sharpening system.
In that light, adding a bit of tape to accommodate for our system, is not that illogical.

Just don't let the razor, or who it's going to, intimidate you. Hone it as if it was yours, and I'm sure the shave will be good.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Thank you for the information and as always sage advice Sir Bart, Dilucot with 1 tape layer it is then.

Gary, how did you find the edge after the unicot? I must say I have always been taken aback by the price of these razors new, but I cannot deny that the quality is absolutely outstanding, the only new top end razor I own is my Palmera #14, and the TI feels and looks at least as well made, if not a little better
I MAY have to thin the herd and buy one, now lets go over to Thiers Issard UK dot com, and see how wife friendly the prices are.............
Oh wow ONLY 190 for the 1 that catches my eye! now lets get my self upstairs and see how many of my restored old girls I would have to cull to raise that....lol

By best wishes, Ralfson (Dr)
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
very sharp. i just had a quimk shave on half day growth defanatley sharp, i don't think any one can go wrong with unicot it realy does work. if i had no paste etc i would use it all the time if neeed be.

the la grelot from raspur are only 115. and i tell you somthing it comes smooth and one hell of a shaver from martin. have a look
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
very sharp. i just had a quimk shave on half day growth defanatley sharp, i don't think any one can go wrong with unicot it realy does work. if i had no paste etc i would use it all the time if neeed be.

the la grelot from raspur are only 115. and i tell you somthing it comes smooth and one hell of a shaver from martin. have a look

Thanks mate :thumbup:
BTW and off topic, did you get a chance to test shave off my vintage combo yet?
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
thats my next shave, i had to get this ti sorted. i will defanatley shave with the razor honed on your coticule by monday i will email you with how it goes.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
i've just finished honing as you sugesterd. HHT is unreal. i can actauly run the razor above skin level bove the back of my hand and thefine hairs slice and jump in mid air.carn't wait to shave with razor should be interestingnow then to touch up on this razor i would need to add two layers and hone on my coti.

if i was to touch up on paddle with paste would i need to add tape or not. if it was pasted strop would you tape or not/ i would guess not on pasted strop not sure about felt paddle or leather on paddle strop

Touch up, indeed with 2 layers on the Coticule with water.
If you want to use a pasted strop, it depends, a loom strop with a loose setting or a pasted hanging strop work fine without adding the tape. On a solid paddle I would expect that you needed to add at least 1 layer. But I have no experience touching up with paddle strops, so you'll have to try and see for yourself.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

jfdupuis

Well-Known Member
hey guys,

just got my coticule today and I plan on addressing my newly acquired Ti 7/8 C135 with it tonight. So if I get you guys correctly you would dull the razor then add one layer of tape, do passes with slurry until it shaves arm hair and then add two more (3 total) layers of tape and proceed with the 40 light passes with diluted slurry then about 50 with water only?

Thanks!

JF
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
jfdupuis said:
hey guys,

just got my coticule today and I plan on addressing my newly acquired Ti 7/8 C135 with it tonight. So if I get you guys correctly you would dull the razor then add one layer of tape, do passes with slurry until it shaves arm hair and then add two more (3 total) layers of tape and proceed with the 40 light passes with diluted slurry then about 50 with water only?

Thanks!

JF

Not exactly. Check out the
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article in the sharpening academy and
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on Youtube.

Enjoy and Good Luck! :thumbup:
 
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