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Trying a shapton 30k
- Thread starter Emmanuel
- Start Date
Yes indeed, that man is a goldmine of information when it comes to synthetics & especially SHaptons.tat2Ralfy said:
For those of you who don't know I can say that his interest & knowledge in Shaptons are pretty much
comparable to what Bart is to the coticule :thumbup:
A good while ago we had a PM-conversation on another forum & he wrote the words to me he probably still
regrets "Don't hesitate to ask me if there is something you'd like some help with when it comes
to sharpening & honing" I have been pestering him ever since
: The Shapton 30K is a bit to expensive to buy "just to play around with" but I really would like to try one day to hone a razor up to 30K on synthetics & then do the lightest laps on a coticule, perhaps stropping laps.
Might just be a very, very sharp but still smooth edge.
I've given it some more thought & I really don't think you can get good results from a coticule to a 30K.
A coticule can really smooth out a sharp synthetic edge, but I don't think it works the other way around where a high-grit synthetic finisher can work after a coticule. If it's not a natural, like Joe wrote coti to Escher/Thuri works great. So does coti to Arkansas.
Again, the coticule shows its superior versatility!
They sure are hard to compare.Drybonz said:
And they are also very, very different ways to hone a razor.
One is state of the art, ultra high grit, sharp as a laser beam.
The other one is 480 million years old & smooth as silk.
Actually I think it's hard to get two stones that both work very well that are more far apart :w00t:
Yes I have to date tried 3 different razors honed on 30K Shapton.Emmanuel said:
2 on the Pro version & 1 on the glass stone.
They feel very similar the pro & the glass stone.
They were all honed on Shaptons the whole way from bevel to 30K, by Mr Tom Blodgett of Jende Industries,
http://www.jendeindustries.com/mm5/merchant.mvc
Tom has a honing service, so if you or someone else want to try what the 30K feels like when it's reaches it's maximum potential, Tom's your man.
And yes I know the man, but I don't get commission on referring people to him, I'm just very impressed with his skills with these stones
I did a more thorough review on Badger&blade when I tried it the first time Tom honed a razor for me:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=163036
I sure have shaved with many great coticule edges.Emmanuel said:
Amongst them one honed by Bart.
And I love it! The edge leaves nothing to be desired.
I learned to hone on a coticule from the vault & I still find coticule the single stone
with the best tactile feedback ( albeit the BBW comes very close)
But I am a curious person & I like to try & tinker with things.
These tries has led to me the conclusion that there simply is a plethora of finishing & honing options
available & I've also found that I like a lot of different edges.
Just like many chooses a straight, a brush & a soap for the days shave I also choose a edge.
I love sharpening & that has been a hobby of mine for many years.
Honing is not nearly as long but something I enjoy immensely.
So no worries, I don't come here to lead you all to the dark side of synthetics.
It's just that it's something I know a little about & when the questions are raised I try to bring my part to the discussions.
Bart
Well-Known Member
Emmanuel said:
Thank you Emmanuel. There is no doubt with this approach that you had an edge that carried only the scratch pattern of the Shapton 30K, without any influence of another hone. Whether your prime bevel was created with a Coticule, 10K Synthetic, or somethings else, is rendered completely irrevelant by the tape.
BUT
1. You can't just compare HHT results among 2 hones from a completely different family. Without stropping and test shaving (based on my information, I would skip the linen for stropping the Shapton edge), your experiment is meaningless.
2. It is quite possible that the Shapton needs the influence of an underlying scratch pattern. What has been shared by Jens and other members seems to indicate that. (I am very skeptical about this socalled "overhoning" and look forward to the day someone shares a method to "overhone" an edge -with the kind of pressure and strokes we use for razor sharpening- and shows picures of the evidence). I think it is more likely that the Shapton 30K has the ability to improve the scratch pattern from a 16K with a couple of laps. That doesn't necesarily give the same effect as the S30 riding on its own.
My friend, I believe that remark is a bit too proselityzing for a man of science, such as yourself.Emmanuel said:
There are people who get a kick out of driving a high speed sports car, with the adrenaline racing trough their veins. Shaving with the scariest sharp razor blade is a bit the same. One moment of distraction leads to immediate harm.
There are also people who love riding with a luxurious classic car, enjoying the countyside with the hum of the egine as background music.
These are two different worlds, my friend.
Here's a Coticule ride:
[img=800]http://www.renestaud.com/shop/images/MAYZCA006.jpg[/img]
Bart!
Once again you nailed it!
That car comparison is spot on.
It's great to have a few cars in the garage & just go out there& pick whatever you feel like that day.
The luxuries the common man can afford in the 21st century
Thank God we live in a part of the world & in a time that permits us to do just that!
Once again you nailed it!
That car comparison is spot on.
It's great to have a few cars in the garage & just go out there& pick whatever you feel like that day.
The luxuries the common man can afford in the 21st century
Thank God we live in a part of the world & in a time that permits us to do just that!
Emmanuel
Well-Known Member
Thanks Bart.
But ,my friend i have to declare.I am a man that :write with a refilling pen,i smoke pipe(that's an option),shave with a straight razor,hone with a coticule only,hear traditional music,
fabricate traditional musical instruments, and play traditional musical instruments too.And now
i catch the portunity to share an own appearance on national television of Greece playing Cretan lyra for a Cretan dance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD23CnpmKrM
Your friend
Emmanuel
But ,my friend i have to declare.I am a man that :write with a refilling pen,i smoke pipe(that's an option),shave with a straight razor,hone with a coticule only,hear traditional music,
fabricate traditional musical instruments, and play traditional musical instruments too.And now
i catch the portunity to share an own appearance on national television of Greece playing Cretan lyra for a Cretan dance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD23CnpmKrM
Your friend
Emmanuel
G
Guest
I think Emmanuel hit the nail squarely on the head. There are traditionalists, and there are opportunists. I consider myself a traditionalist. I like vintage razors in their original state, I like the appeal of honing them with a traditional hone, and I am completely content with the results I get from those shaves. Even if synthetic hones were able to deliver better shaves (which, judging from past experience from razors which were honed on synthetics), I simply could not be bothered. Likewise, I could not imagine having a car like the one in Bart's picture and some high powered ricer or a wank tank in the same garage. Different strokes and all that.
squeezyjohn
Well-Known Member
I am with Emmanuel entirely on the traditional appeal. In other areas of my life I also look for the traditional ways of doing things e.g. I play folk music on traditional instruments that should last a lifetime, I try and grow most of my own vegetables etc...
The thing about traditional things is they have been tried and tested and they come with many lifetimes of experience which prove that they work (if you are lucky enough to learn the craft from others). They may not be the highest, loudest, sharpest, but they are generally robust and sustainable because that's how life was for many years ... and arguably how it should still be.
I am very grateful again to everyone who contributes to coticule.be because for me it is replacing the traditional mentor and peers that you would historically need to learn the skill of honing razors on a coticule and shaving with the edge. Where I live - I don't even know anyone who shaves with a straight razor at all.
Cheers
Squeezy
The thing about traditional things is they have been tried and tested and they come with many lifetimes of experience which prove that they work (if you are lucky enough to learn the craft from others). They may not be the highest, loudest, sharpest, but they are generally robust and sustainable because that's how life was for many years ... and arguably how it should still be.
I am very grateful again to everyone who contributes to coticule.be because for me it is replacing the traditional mentor and peers that you would historically need to learn the skill of honing razors on a coticule and shaving with the edge. Where I live - I don't even know anyone who shaves with a straight razor at all.
Cheers
Squeezy
Smythe
Well-Known Member
Indeed there was once a time I didn’t believe in such nonsense, until I witnessed it for myself while honing (that's another story).
I have found that a wire-edge will most likely occur with a “softer tempered” steel (some old Sheffield razors fall into this category) and the more acute the bevel angel, the more likely it is to happen. It will also most likely happen on a man-made hone. Pressure will also have an effect on the development of a wire, the more pressure used the more likely it is to happen, this is because the edge will deflect away from the surface of the hone and abrasion will happen on the bevel somewhat behind the edge… thus making the steel nearest to the edge thinner.
The worst case; if you are sharpening softer-tempered steel on a man-made hone, and the bevel angle is more acute than the norm, and applying some pressure will most likely produce a wired edge (bear in mind, this does not mean an absents of any one or more of these variables will not produce a wire, absents only means it’s less likely to happen).
It is known (or well written about), that a wire is produced when the bevels meet at the edge (the razor is as sharp as can be at this point) and any further sharpening will cause a wire of steel to grow from the edge. However, the Coticule is notorious for not producing a wire, so when Emanuel sharpened his razor on the Coticule, there is no wire (his razor is as sharp as can be at this point)… so when afterwords he continue to sharpen on the Shapton hone (man-made hone) he will likely produce a wire-edge because the bevels already meet at the edge off the Coticule.
I can only say, the experiment will most likely fail, because he is a victim of his own “well-honed” skill… I suspect someone who is less adept at honing on a Coticule will get better results in this experiment.
I have found that a wire-edge will most likely occur with a “softer tempered” steel (some old Sheffield razors fall into this category) and the more acute the bevel angel, the more likely it is to happen. It will also most likely happen on a man-made hone. Pressure will also have an effect on the development of a wire, the more pressure used the more likely it is to happen, this is because the edge will deflect away from the surface of the hone and abrasion will happen on the bevel somewhat behind the edge… thus making the steel nearest to the edge thinner.
The worst case; if you are sharpening softer-tempered steel on a man-made hone, and the bevel angle is more acute than the norm, and applying some pressure will most likely produce a wired edge (bear in mind, this does not mean an absents of any one or more of these variables will not produce a wire, absents only means it’s less likely to happen).
It is known (or well written about), that a wire is produced when the bevels meet at the edge (the razor is as sharp as can be at this point) and any further sharpening will cause a wire of steel to grow from the edge. However, the Coticule is notorious for not producing a wire, so when Emanuel sharpened his razor on the Coticule, there is no wire (his razor is as sharp as can be at this point)… so when afterwords he continue to sharpen on the Shapton hone (man-made hone) he will likely produce a wire-edge because the bevels already meet at the edge off the Coticule.
I can only say, the experiment will most likely fail, because he is a victim of his own “well-honed” skill… I suspect someone who is less adept at honing on a Coticule will get better results in this experiment.