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Comparing Shaves From Coticules, Thuringians, and Escher Stones

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Gary and I have both been trying out Vintage Thuringian and Escher Stones as finishers, now I am talking about those old highly rated and very costly Germanic stones, not the modern day Thuringians. and as we know Escher was just a brand name for Thuringian stones, so for the sake of clarity I shall refer to them as simply Thuringian from now on, indeed I have compared both brands side by side and I could not tell them apart.

We came to the conclusion that so far we could not tell the difference between a well honed Coticule edge, and the edge left by finishing on the Thuringians. and I mean we could tell any difference, same smoothness, same sharpness, same feel to our skin after shaving the lot.

I am not at all interested in discussing the hype, prices, or differences in attitudes concerning these types of stones, please dont clutter this thread with any of that nonsense.

I would like to hear from other users of Thuringian and Coticule stones as finishers, and see if your results are the same as ours? also I am interested in the techniques others use to get the best finish out of these old German stones.

I always finish on water, I tried slurry and light slurry on Thuringians and the result was not as good as I like, I also tried coming off Norton 8K and C12K before finishing, and again found the edges were ok, but not amazing, the best results I have had is coming off a Coticule, I dilute slurry through to water on the Coticule, and then switch to the Thuringian to finish, 30 or 60 regular X strokes on water, refreshing the water as I go, and I have got some great HHT results, and some very nice shaves.

So has anyone else had any experience with these stones, and how did they work for you?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
good post ralfy. i for one have tryed three echers of . one dark blue one blue /green and a barbers delight. i have had my vintage thury for some time now. I never got a great edge of slurry. Water is the way for me. i have tryed 30 laps then another 30 laps right up to 100 laps on water after dilucot. I beleive you carn't over hone on these just like you carn't on your coticules. the edges have been very nice. the slurry edges were crispy.the finest edge was with water. I've only resently been messing back and forth with coticule then thury . Both typical of a natural hone .This 5x1 thury will be my travel hone. I do 30 laps per week as a refresh on all my razors. i do this each time with a differant coticule and i will use my thury in the rotation.my thury is a keeper.

gary
 
G

Guest

Ralf and Gary ,is incredible, two minutes ago i ask you both ( post The HHT in real life)for the same issue.Please read it.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
Some of the people I have honed razors for asked me to provide them with samples of each of these stones. 3 razors 3 stones and I only knew which stone was used on which razor. Results - NONE of them could tell the difference between any of the razors.

I do, however, get more kudos than ever before about how smooth the Coticule edge feels compared to any other synthetic finish.

rh
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
I've had four Thuringian hones. Two of them were from MST. (And there is some confusion about the stones from MST, as many vendors selling them have misrepresented the German non-Thuringian stone MST sells as Thuringian, usually also calling the MST Thuringians "the Original Escher". I assume the ones mislabeled as a Thuringian is what Ralfy means by "new Thuringians". Also, MST themselves do not employ this misleading practice. My stones were actual Thuringians, mined in that region unlike the imposters. Mine functioned the same as the vintage ones I've had. Disclaimer over.)

I found all of the stones to leave an edge comparable to a coticule's results although typically less hair-not-skin biased. With one stone,which was 2.5"x5", I tried a thick slurry, doing lots of circles like on a Japanese stone. That way, I rehydrated the water a bit a few times and finished almost dry. This method gave me a very sharp but mellow edge. It would pass the HHT wonderfully and felt dull on the skin despite cutting well. I have yet to try this on other Thuringians but plan to try it on the only one I have now.
 

BlueDun

Well-Known Member
I have so far not been able to manage a successful HHT directly off my Escher. Be it with or without slurry. I did even manage to loose a successful HHT coming from the Naniwa SS 10k and going to the Escher. After that I put it away and never really got back to give it another dedicated try. I've still Coticules to master and I find that way more rewarding ...

Cheers
BlueDun
 

DG7

Well-Known Member
I have a vintage Escher, and I can't really tell the shave difference between it an my Coticules, but I can definitely tell the difference between a synthetic hone. Most of the time I've tried my Escher has been after using a Coticule. I've tried the "Diluthuri" method too, but don't really have enough data to post an opinion.
 

jfdupuis

Well-Known Member
I also have one of those MST stone that SliceofLife was selling last year. Mine is very small probably about 4 inches long and barely 1" wide. I had never really used it much until last week. I decide to test it out so I did a full dilution on my coticule and then I did 60 passes on the MST with water. I then went back to the coticule with water too and did another 40 passes. I felt like the MST gave the razor a bit of extra sharpness, but I still wanted the coticule feel, hence the extra 40 passes on the coticules. That routine took a little Boker King Cutter from not cutting hair at all to an HHT-5 on 95% of the blade an about HHT-3 or 4 at the very heel. Needless to say that the razor gave me an awesome shave! I might have to start using that little stone more often now!
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
danjared said:
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I meant the ones sold as "Original Müller Thuringian" stones, I do not know if these are true Thuringians or not? but I know that I have one, and the edges are not as smooth as the edges off my Vintage one. I have found that it gives a nice sharp edge though, and if i take it back to the coticule it smooths out, however I never use it as its just easier to stick with a Coticule for me.

So far it seems with the exception of Emmanuel, we find little or no difference in the shave quality, yes?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

TM280

Well-Known Member
Funny that you opened this thread today, Ralfy. I shaved today with a Thüringian edge for the first time in about a year. I took a good shaving Swedish razor and did a dilution run from thin slurry, just x-strokes. No counts, just following the change in feel from abrasion to suction. Did quite a few dilutions, then half wash then water for about 50 strokes. The water took much longer to get the feedback change on than any of my dilutions (maybe 12 strokes each step). Maybe I washed the slurry too soon.

I shaved half with this one and half with the dilu-BBW edge I have been using lately (no secondary bevel, no backstrokes, finish on slurry). I was tentative with the Thüringian edge, not knowing what to expect and knowing I am a bit heavy handed. But it was very nice, no problems with the smoothness, very much like the edge I have been getting off of a Les Latneuses.

But it felt very different than the BBW edge. It might just have been that I was watching out, but the silkiness of the BBW which says "just hammer away", wasn't there. But then again, this is also different from most of my other coticule edges.

HHT was not very good off the hone, maybe 2, but stropping jumped it to silent popping. I find it difficult to say how much easier the Thüringian may be, since I started with a good edge and used the dilucot method. I would have gotten a very good result on my coticules doing the same thing. But I do know that when I used it before, this type of result was only occasional. My coticule experience definitely allows for getting the most out of this one.

regards,
Torolf
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
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I did understand Ralf ,we agree or not? Thats my experience:
Gary and Ralf do you find that the edges coming from coticules and Escher's are exactly same?
I repeatedly compare my heritage old rock coticule and my Escher.For me the coticule's edge is smoother and longer. Whats your opinion.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Well most of us so far seem to be finding no difference to speak of, so would say for us it is a little different than the results you get Emmanuel, how are you honing before you finish on the Thuringian? I know if I come from a manmade stone the shave is not so good.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
the problem i had was i was taking advice from how freind sham. As he seems to be the escher man. he swore to me to use light slurry on the escher to finish no water. this is how they work he says. bearing in mind he uses differant progression before hand. i never got the smooth shaves i could from coticule. it baffled me as water was giving me a better finish. after all of that i just got rid of my eschers. i kept my little thury (vintage one) It was only when ralfy said his 5x1 escher was working i decided to try my thury with water after a dilucot edge on coticule and i compared the differance. In all firness i liked the results no worse still smooth still hht up there. the shave was as good . the razor i sent ralfy was finisged on his escher and the edge was smooth but i felt the shave was may be closer. there realy was'nt any massive differance in smooth ness i could not feel the differance in that departmant. I felt the shave was close and still comfortable. there is no dout that these little hones do the same job as a finisher but there not the work horse that the coticule is with slurry .

gary
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Ralf for me the HHT coming from both vintages is same The only difference i find is that the
edge from coticule is smoother and lasts longer.
On Escher i apply same dilucot method as coticule but less dilutions and always elliptical motions ending with x strokes.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Ralfy, after you edit another of my posts, could you tell me if you have tried an edge from you Charnley Forrest backed off with the Thuringian or a coticule. I am thinking of using that technique with the Rolls. BTW, another way to get a "handle" for flipping the Rolls is to use the handle that comes with it unscrewed to get to the pin and shim the pin with a piece of room key plastic or old credit card. The plastic will deform and hold it tightly. Your 2% sincerely ashamed of himself friend, Denny
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Post edited no worries ;)

I did try going back to the Coticule after the Charnley, and result was the same as I get going back after a balsa strop, or any other medium that adds keenness, the edge stays very sharp, and smooths out, if you keep the work on the Coticule to just 30 strokes or less on water.

I must try the Rolls handle tip, thanks for that

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Friends whats the Rolls handle tip.Sorry boys maybe i speak just the Queen's english.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Eman, if you don't have a Rolls Razor, which is a weird piece of gear, it is not applicable.
 
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