Comparing Shaves From Coticules, Thuringians, and Escher Stones

[vgeorge]

FWIW, I believe there is a similar phenomenon that Highway Safety Department in the US (and I am sure, in any country where they try to figure these things out) comes up against. In seeking to establish the effectiveness of incremental accident-avoidance features in cars, the studies always end up showing that the driver's skill makes all the difference in avoiding accidents, and the auto features little. (Post-accident, protective features are a different story.) I am sure Denny has similar stories from the airline world.

The point I am trying to make is honer's, like the driver's, skill is a huge predictor of the end result and we should indeed pay attention to that. I am a bit embarrassed saying this because I am myself still in the process of ramping that up. That said, it is reasonable to ask does X makes a difference all else remaining the same. Do all expert drivers manage to avoid accidents at 0.99% probability in winding, snow bound, mountain roads? Are coticule finishes generally better/worse than hone Y in the hands of an expert?

I cannot comment on the latter yet although I believe I have a Thuringian, because I am not very sure if it is indeed the real thing. See, I 'buy' my stones honestly, and since I am cheap I get them in bins that usually contain a coticule (which is what I am looking for) and the pain of figuring out all the rest is serious. At least, I honestly buy them. My friend Chris was robbed blind of his coticule by a salesman pretending to be selling hammers. Not good, I tell you. Not good.

 

[DJKELLY]

[small]Denny, we need you here ... [/small]

See, I 'buy' my stones honestly, and since I am cheap I get them in bins that usually contain a coticule (which is what I am looking for) and the pain of figuring out all the rest is serious. At least, I honestly buy them. My friend Chris was robbed blind of his coticule by a salesman pretending to be selling hammers. Not good, I tell you. Not good.

Reminds me of the little girl walking with her mom when they see a couple of dogs copulating. Of course, the little girl asks what is going on the mom says the dog on top has sore paws, and the other one is helping carry him around. The little girl says, "A'int that always the truth. Ya help someone out ya get fucked every time."

Besides, the reason his hone didn't work so well might be the Polar Bear shit that took me a week to clean off the poor thing. I had to wear a hazmat suit to use it the first time.

Not to mention, I was kinda trying to say the same thing as Bart, but failed miserably.

Not your friend anymore. Denny

 

[Jens]

[small]I just wondered how others found the edge[/small]

That is the funniest post I have read online in a very long time : : :

Sorry for the off topic guys, carry on.

 

[Drybonz]

Gary and I and some other guys were talking about this at B&B not too long ago. I'm new to honing and have got some varied results... but what I have done is taken razors that I got good results with on my coticule and finished them with a Thuringian (actually, two different Thuringians) to compare the finish with and without the Thuri.

What I found is that, to me, the finish with the Thuringian is a little smoother on my face. As I said in the B&B thread, the coticule finish, when it's right, is absolutely great and I could shave with it for the rest of my life and never have a complaint. The advantage of the Thuringian finish, for me, is slight, but it is there.

The two Thuringians I used I couldn't tell any difference between them. They both left similar edges... I liked them both.

I use/will use the Thuringian as a finisher the first time off the coticule, and then as a touch-up stone in-between necessary coticule honing.

As a novice, I understand that my input may not be as relevant or reliable, but I like to join in on the discussions and give my input.

 

[Emmanuel]

My friend Drybones ,if you like my opinion after 35 years of straight razor shaving i can confirm without doubt that the coticule produce a smoother edge. I have not a thuringian but i have my heritage Escher.Bart in some previous threads presented prices from old days.Coticules was much more expensive.Dont thing that the olds was idiots. To day mentioned stones is expensive because the mine is depleted.
At your disposal
Emmanuel

 

[Drybonz]

My friend Drybones ,if you like my opinion after 35 years of straight razor shaving i can confirm without doubt that the coticule produce a smoother edge.

It's very likely that I haven't the skill, yet, to produce the best edge possible with my coticule and that the Thuringian is improving upon my amateur edge.

 

[garyhaywood]

My friend Drybones ,if you like my opinion after 35 years of straight razor shaving i can confirm without doubt that the coticule produce a smoother edge.

It's very likely that I haven't the skill, yet, to produce the best edge possible with my coticule and that the Thuringian is improving upon my amateur edge.

i would say my thury versus the coticule were very close as a finisher. personal choice is the kee. I actauly like my 5x1 thury its a great size and feels nice to use. In a blind test i probably would not notice the differance. I'm not sure on this but i reckon the thury may add keeness more easily on water,as it may cut just alittle tiny bit more. So if you hav'nt got the max out of your coti you may feel by using the thury it has helped. the best thing is to get your razor sent to Ray, bart or ralfy for a free honing on there belgium coticule.This will give you a good bench mark. this is what i did and it helped me loads.

gary

 

[Drybonz]

They were pretty close for me too... the main thing I noticed was, with the coticule finish, there is a slightly "scritchy" sound and feel as I shaved... not unpleasant, but it seemed to be kind of a signature of the coticule edge to me, as it was present on more than one blade. With the Thuringian as the finisher that slight feeling was refined... almost gone.

 

[Jens]

Gary made a very valid statement.
The Thuri continues to enhance keenness on water. The coticule doesn't.
So if you're not really done when you start finishing (which you should be!)
the Thuri can make up for it to some degree.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

For me I found the biggest difference was how easy it is to obtain the best possible results from each stone, if my Coticule edge was not as good as it could be, the Thuringian improved it, if it was at it's peak then there was no noticable difference, I have taken a very nicely finished Thuringian edge and given it 30 laps on a Coticule with water, again I found no great difference, the edge certainly did not degrade any.

Now when I took an edge that was not quite there, off the Thuringian, and used a Coticule on it, it too improved, and edge that is well behind it's max, doesn't seem to respond as well on the Thuringian, as it does on a Coticule.

So I believe that for me the Coticule is more versatile, it will pull back a duller edge, and if it's taken to the maximum of it's potential the edge is as good as any I have tried off a Thuringian.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Drybonz]

So if you hav'nt got the max out of your coti you may feel by using the thury it has helped.

It seems like, for this reason, a novice, like myself, might benefit from Thuringian, or similar finisher, as an alternative to using pastes, as a crutch, like some new guys do. This way you still get some quality honing practice, instead of using a paste, but you are getting the same end effect, which is fine tuning a "less than expert" edge.

 

[wdwrx]

My favourite crutch some months ago was to use a coti powder pasted strop.

 

[Drybonz]

My favourite crutch some months ago was to use a coti powder pasted strop.

I'm not sure if you are serious or messing with me, but if so, that's kinda cool.

Man... I really love using that Thuringian though... it's so smooth and glassy. It's a joy to hone with it. I think I am just trying to find good excuses to use it.

 

[pinklather]

slight, but necessary diversion.
Emanuel: 35 yrs of str8 shaving. No wonder your knowledge and posts come through with great power, delivered softly. I so appreciate your posts and am very glad you're here. You've probably forgotten more than most of us will ever know. Thank You for sharing.

There's one guy on another board that's been str8 shaving since '68. When we spoke, I mentioned getting a razor at an antique show (DD special#1). He said he'd had one since '69, and it was a fav. shaver ever since. I finally got that blade into scales, and the first really excellent edge from a long, narrow LPB (I struggle to learn the narrow rock - and I used circles to do it). That may be the best shaver I've handled yet (amongst wackers, williams & other excellent blades). Preferences differ, but the long experience of these guys make them a treasure to take note of.

 

[Emmanuel]

Thank you very much pinklather for your kind words .
If you are located in Europe is pleasure to me to hone one two, three if you like razors for you, ofcourse free of charge .
Best regards
Emmanuel

 

[pinklather]

The pleasure would be meeting you and spending time, Emmanuel.

 

[Disburden]

Well I just shaved with a razor I bought from Sham on SRP that was finished on an escher. I've been getting used to edges from my Coticules and Frankonian as this one was a little too keen for my liking. If it is true that he finishes on slurry and not water only then that might explain it. When I finish on the escher I use water only and don't get anything this keen.

Another thing to keep in mind is the progression used before the finishing stone. If a Coticule is used for the progression then maybe going to the escher after keeps some of the smoothness from the coticule. On the other hand, if a total synthetic progression is used before the escher, then maybe it can not get that smoothness. I always use a dilucot method for my own honing so maybe that is it.

you will find that sham uses a differant progression of naturals before the escher. he uses a j-nat before escher. I have tryed escher with slurry and i lost keeness. Unless the slurry was real light i might get away with loosing keeness. On my thury i defanatley had a much less keen edge.with the use of slurry. On the label it says use water. My escher did recomend slurry and it also creates a slight slime very quikly. the thury generates a similar feeling.
gary

He has a ritual of progressing a lot through his hones because he likes using them all a lot. Last I heard the Nakayama was used on mud and then the YG Escher on Mud with slurry.
I use slurry on my large YG Escher as well and I like the results, I do about 70 laps until I am satisfied. Another friend of mine finishes on a "Brown Escher" with oil which follows a Coticule with water, a Jnat, and then YG Escher with slurry.

If I use oil or lather on my Coticules I find similar results as far as reaching crisper edges as we call them here, so that's what I like to do when I use my Belgian stones.

 

[danjared]

He has a ritual of progressing a lot through his hones because he likes using them all a lot. Last I heard the Nakayama was used on mud and then the YG Escher on Mud with slurry.
I use slurry on my large YG Escher as well and I like the results, I do about 70 laps until I am satisfied. Another friend of mine finishes on a "Brown Escher" with oil which follows a Coticule with water, a Jnat, and then YG Escher with slurry.

:blink:

 

[vgeorge]

He has a ritual of progressing a lot through his hones because he likes using them all a lot. Last I heard the Nakayama was used on mud and then the YG Escher on Mud with slurry.
I use slurry on my large YG Escher as well and I like the results, I do about 70 laps until I am satisfied. Another friend of mine finishes on a "Brown Escher" with oil which follows a Coticule with water, a Jnat, and then YG Escher with slurry.

:blink:

me too :blink: :blink:

 

[Smythe]

He has a ritual of progressing a lot through his hones because he likes using them all a lot. Last I heard the Nakayama was used on mud and then the YG Escher on Mud with slurry.
I use slurry on my large YG Escher as well and I like the results, I do about 70 laps until I am satisfied. Another friend of mine finishes on a "Brown Escher" with oil which follows a Coticule with water, a Jnat, and then YG Escher with slurry.

Really trying not to appear to be “mocking”, and maybe it's some new method of honing I have not yet herd of, but…. Mud? :blink: